What makes a good bass player?

I would add Geddy Lee to your list. He’s the reason I picked up the bass.

Bruce and Entwistle are/were amazing. What about Geddy Lee from Rush? He can definitely be mentioned in the same breath as Bruce and Entwistle. If you doubt me, check out Rush as they tour through the country this summer. You won’t be dissappointed.

Thanks for the comments. I agree that Geddy Lee is an excellent bass player, however, in my opinion, he doesn’t consistently use counterpoint in his playing, and again, in my opinion, he is just a little below these two. He is definitely approaching the level of Jaco Pastorius.

I think Jack Bruce is great because he is not only great in rock but also jazz, and was the first, as far as I am aware, to use a 6 string bass, making full use of those extra 2.

Entwistle is great because his lines were fluid, in the manner Carlos Santana plays the guitar. For me, I always think of 1 performance that puts a player permanently in my mind. With Entwistle, it was ‘The Real Me’ I still can’t hear it enough. Much like for Jimi, it is ‘All Along the Watchtower’. For SRV, it was being able to duplicate ‘Voodoo Chile [Slight Return]‘ without sounding stupid or derivative. For Jack Bruce, it is ‘Crossroads’. I still marvel at the performance, as it was 1967, live, and there were no studio tricks applied!

Entwhistle once said his bass playing in the Who was largely shaped by Keith Moon, who didn’t use a high hat. As a result, JE had to keep time moreso than most other bass players.

My theory about great bassists goes in a different direction and also applies to drummers: it’s not so much WHAT you play but WHERE you put it and sometimes what you DON’T play.

Guys like James Jamerson from Motown and the whole behind the beat thing. A more recent example, if you listen closely, is some incredible hidden musicianship from the brothers DiLeo in Stone Temple Pilots. The bass is straight out of Motown and the guitar does all sorts of altered chords and shadings. I’ve heard them cover Girl from Ipanema like pros(!)

As for drummers, John Bonham was a master of feel, groove, and space (not to mention a master of alcohol consumption).

Thanks for the comment, Lefty. I thought I had read every interview Ox ever gave that was published here in the U.S., but I don’t remember that. I too, subscribe to the idea that knowing what not to play is as important as what you do. That is why he was great, and also why I don’t consider Alvin Lee a great guitarist, just extremely fast.

As to drummers, you must’ve read my mind, somewhat. Bonzo was good, but again, in those same groups where the bass player was great, so was the drummer. Keith Moon was amazing, but even he can’t compare to Ginger Baker. He knows what to play, when to play, and can play all around the beat while still keeping time. He is the master of different fills, never sounding like a beatbox or someone who has no imagination. This is why I never liked Charlie Watts. He has impeccable timing, but gets very boring in almost no time.

Other than Ginger and Keith, I would guess my favorite drummer to listen to would be Ian Paice.

One bass player who is consistently underrated is Paul McCartney: listen to to Paperback Writer.

Being the bass guitar my favorite instrument, I always had a tendency to like rock bands with the greatest ones. There’s another great player (or two) missing from your listings; Chris Squire (Yes) and John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin). Two completely different playing styles and personalities, but both deserving the mention.

It seems to me that we are covering a very limited
genre of music here. Bass was invented for jazz and
the greats are not even mentioned, Milt Hinton, Ron Carter,Jocko Pastorius (once).
On the rock and soul scene I agree there are
many fine players but you have to listen to the jazz
greats to hear great timing, phrasing, counterpoint,
and voicing. I say this because there is more room in jazz for one to express the instrument. I play keyboards and the bass is the rock that holds the
band together. Drummers are the rythm and occasionally
the two interplay to greatness. Without a good bass
player a there is no band. If you listen hard enough
I would say you could find at least 50-60 GREAT bass
players accross all genre. One last note, you have to
have a great song to sound good. Even a great bass
player cannot enhance a badly written tune. Also the
fine arrangement can lead the bass players role to greatness.

Pastorius “pales in comparision to Bruce and Entwistle”?
What?! Jaco was the greatest bass player ever. Period! This has got to be one of the more stupid things I’ve ever read online.

I played bass (and classically trained in violin, cello and bass) in my younger days. I have to agree with the choices, though my favorite is the Entwhistle. My wife is just beginning to appreciate his work.

In a recent interview, Pete Townshend stated that writing the new album had a new challenge. He had to learn to write for a lead guitar. In the past, he just let John handle it with the bass.

I kind of like what Pino Palladino does too. Yes, I know he’s trying to fill Enwhistle’s shoes right now (and he does an admirable job). But the stuff he did on those Paul Young songs was just great! Simple yet, effective with just the right amount of melody in just the right places.

Victor Wooten is another great one! Whew! He’s something else!

And aother great bass player that doesn’t get much notice anymore is Percy Jones (Brand X). He was doing stuff in Brand X back in the 70’s that I never heard anyone doing before! I use to have to play those records over and over just to try and guess what the heck he was doing!

Well , Bob, One man’s ceiling is another man’s floor.

You guy’s do like your bassplayers BUSY. I’m reading through the list, Bruce, Lee, Entwhistle, Squire all very busy bassists. And of the four mentioned two are lead singers. Very strange, something you wouldn’t find now. But they were also at a time when all music was free’er. And bands album would contain all types of tunes, fast, slow, jazz, country, now it’s ten versions of the same song in two different keys, the major and relative minor.
but this is true
there was bass before Jaco
a many imitators after.

Bassmickeyd, thanks for the comment, especially so long after the post. I am truly amazed. As for the term busy, I suppose, but they also knew/know when not to play. This is especially true of Bruce and Entwistle. There are others I’ve heard [none pop into my brain by name right now] that are decent players, but also seem like frustrated lead guitarists. It is a matter of taste, but I tend to think within the confines of how things came about in classical music, ’cause that is what I was first exposed to, many moons ago.

Speaking of taste, I have always liked the lead players that at least some of the time, double the vocal. Now clearly I’m in the minority here, because it isn’t done much of the time, or by many.

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hey ……………………. when you plays bass you got to tink about what you is doing! and how you can play and like when you feels that you can not play nmore keep on playing! and then some day you be good like the bass play frim nickel back (mike) he is so good at it and it is alot more good bass player !

Mitchell, thanks for dropping by. Been checkin’ de ganja, yah?

i agree with everyhting you’ve said here though i think you should take a closer listen to jaco. you highlight bach’s use of musical counterpoint and its importance in bass playing but then you say jaco pales in comparison to bruce and entwistle. i mean cmon man, jaco was playing chromatic fantasy in the early 70’s, YEARS before he was famous. he was quoting stravinsky in his solos. he was writing parts for strings to be played with his own basslines. the guy was a second voice to joni on her albums. if any one of these bassists knew something about classical and counterpoint it was jaco. harmonically and melodically jaco was heads above these two. anyone who denies this simply does not know what the two terms mean. this is one of the reasons why jaco was such a legend in his prime. i love bruce and entwistle but anything they could do jaco could also. if you told them that jaco’s music paled in comparison compared to their own you’d be told to think about what your saying.

Jahmez, all I can say is WOW, I did not think a comment would come for anything I wrote such a long time ago…thanks. I do, however, think that I’ll stick with my views on this, but I respect your right to your opinion.

Jesse F. Keeler is another very talented bassist. In DFA 1979 (a two piece drums, and bass band) the music has excellent energy and incredible rythm and is very listenable as compared to other bass/drum duets. He is the reason I picked up the bass, he can do sum amazing stuff.

Kyle, I do think you miss the point. Being a good bass player is not simply taking the playing of the guitar an octave lower. The best bass players make a counterpoint to the established melody, or an interesting line that accents what the lead player is doing (walking bass line for example).

Jesse Keeler is still very talented. It is amazing wut he can do with his bass, and calling his playing a guitar tune one octave lower is disrespectful. DFA 1979 makes incredibl music and Jesse F Keeler is awesome. He takes a bass line and makes it interesting.

Kyle Dedo - to each his own. I have never looked at the bass as a lead instrument, but it can be so much more than a timekeeping device - as Ox [John Entwistle] showed all the time. He is missed by many, and in my opinion will never be equalled.

I guess it depends on the style you like. I enjoy Les Claypool. I don’t know if he’s the best but he is my favorite, and he’s pretty much a prodigy.

Thanks. Interesting blog. I think one thing that’s not been mentioned is sound. As a long-time drummer (currently playing keyboards - long story) I have been lucky enough to play with two excellent bassists in my time. Each had the same outstanding features - clean, clear playing with good timing and a beautiful bass sound.

The best of the two was classically trained, and I only got to play with him once when I auditioned for a band many moons ago. I’d seen the band play live but playing *with* the bassist was amazing - there was this force … right on top of the beat with this gorgeous round sound that blew me away (I missed the drums job BTW cos they could do better than me).

That’s the thing about Jaco. He had this wonderful sound, as well as playing those gorgeous singing lines. I love Jack Bruce and admire John Entwistle - both great bassists, but for me Jaco is Da Man. I also love Tony Levin’s work with King Crimson - another fabulous sound and amazing lines. I also agree with the person who talked about Beatle Paul - very creative!

Of course there is no “best” at this level - it’s a matter of taste. Rock funksters will love Flea, admirers of technique will love Stanley Clarke and the numerous superb jazz and fusions bassists around, and rockers might talk about Bill Wyman’s fab basslines.

Still, for anyone starting out playing bass I feel that a clear and beautiful sound, along with tasteful composition, along with absolutely spot on timing are the most critical bottom line critical qualities for bassists because it’s so easy to muddy up the bottom end with sloppiness or a dirty sound (unless you are going for grunt). From there, you can add creativity and originality.

Greta, first, thanks for the comment. I put Ox (John Entwistle) at the top because, for me, he has the same flowing style as Carlos Santana does with the guitar. Nothing ever sounded rushed or out of place. By the same token, nothing he played sounded like it had been rehearsed to the point of removing all life (several guitar players I know do this, none more than Neal Schon, of Santana, then Journey. He is a great player, but his solos are always so contrived and stale - a master, like Jack Bruce, John Entwistle or Jaco Pastorius never sounds stale, no matter the part he is asked to play.

A topic close to my heart. The song Strange Brew as performed by Cream is what inspired me to pick up a bass. I played the song tonight, in fact, at band practice. I love Jack Bruce. I also love John Entwistle.

But you know who no one here has mentioned yet? Berry Oakley. The founding bass player for the Allman Brothers. If you listen carefully to the famous Fillmore East concert, it was Berry who was the glue in all of those long songs, like Whipping Post. It’s so sad that he died in his 20s before he really had a chance to leave a mark.

Christina, this thread seems to have a life of its own! For someone who plays bass, I would hink that the song ‘Crossroads’ from the live part of ‘Wheels of Fire’ would have done it. (It did for me!)

Actually, Jack is always amazing. He was terrific in West, Bruce and Laing, and also BLT.

My son is 18 and when he saw the Cream reunion concert he commented that it was too bad that the rock of today isn’t that good. Cream was unique, I cannot think of another rock band with so much talent - it’s no wonder they did not last. The only analog I can think of is Return to Forever, again, too much talent and the accompanying egos to stay together.

What ever happened to Victor Wooten?? And whoever mentioned Paul…. props to you. Paul was an excellent musician and he is often overlooked as a bass player due to his multi-instrument talents. But fact a good bassist is all about what you want from one. Maybe someone likes a bass that just drives with eighth notes on the root the whole time, or just does a walk on the triad. As a musician we may not respect their ‘talent’ but if that is what the song calls for, or what a certain ear wants to receive, who are we to judge? Music is all about what sounds good to you. When did it become such a competition of who is better? Isn’t it just about who can write things that have meaning and sound good?

Trust me I respect all the previously mentioned bassists, and try to pull a little of each of them into my style. I understand the complexity of what they are doing, and realize that it takes much dedication and perseverance to achieve a skill like that. I just think through the comments this has turned into who a better bassist is, when it was just about bassists who used a certain classical technique to write a fitting part into a certain song so that certain people would appreciate and cherish it.

Bradley, your absolutely right. Which is probably why I lean to Jack Bruce and John Entwistle.

Both are master performers, bringing thoughtful interpretation to already great music.

Thanks for the comment. I must admit, I have fallen away from a lot of jazz, because my family doesn’t share my tastes, and I haven’t had the opportunity to see anyone live in quite a while.

I’m going to have to remedy that.

guys why are you comparing from the first place?!!!. The world is full of good\great bass players, and no one sounds like the other one. Each one has his own approach on the bass. John Entwistle is an amazing player and so are Geddy Lee, Jack Bruce, Billy Sheehan, Victor Wooten, Stu Hamm, John Myung,flea, G.Butler ……………ect.
After all you can’t compare cuz everything in music is relative. There is nothing such as the Ultimate Best Player; but there some amazing bass players who appeal to ppl when they play. And eachone of those great bass player has his own fans and followers. But ALL of them have inspired so many aspiring bass players.

URS
ZaK

Excellent discussion on an under documented topic. Curiously I started thinking about this issue a coule of days ago, when I listened to, for the first time in 25 years, “Seconds Out” by the forever unfashionable Genesis. I was very much taken by Mike Rutherford’s playing, and the way he worked with Chester Thompson (a really great drummer). To my mind his bass playing sums up a lot of what is discussed here - spot on timing, strong melodies, good funky feel (I am not joking), but above all else working to inprove the music and not stamp all over it in a flashy way.