I guess you would need to clarify your definition of SUV. When I think SUV, I think Tahoe, Escalade, Hummer H2, etc. I don’t believe any of these get 16 mpg city mileage. It really isn’t possible to get that kind of mileage, with decent driveability, with a pig that weighs over 3 tons.

If you are talking about imports, I don’t think too many people consider these overgrown station wagons to be in the same class as SUV [and that is not a value judgement, I don’t own either one]. By the way, the imports get passable mileage only by being underpowered. Most move out like a lame toad when the go pedal is depressed.

SUVs run the gamut, Marc … from the smallest to the largest. The Tahoe, Escalade, and Hummer H2 are definitely at the top of the size (and just as importantly, weight) scale. One way might be to define sizes by the number of passengers.

In the case of the Escalade or Tahoe, folks can argue that it carries 7 or 8 folks in style … eliminating the need to take two vehicles to the kids soccer game or practice. But I can’t tell you how many soccer moms I see driving around town with big empty trucks.

With the Hummer H2, there’s little to justify the impact of the poor gas milage … unless you have serious off-road requirements, the H2 is overkill. I don’t hate Hummers, per se … just that folks buy them as fashion statements, rather than bashing the daylights out of them (as they were initially designed).

The Hummer H1s were available with diesel engines. Some enterprising folks are converting later models to use fuel-efficient diesels. GM has announced that the diesel will soon return as a factory option. So what does that mean?

Run a diesel Hummer on domestically produced bio-diesel (like Neil Young) and you’ll drastically reduce the impact on the environment and eliminate your personal need for imported oil … :)

My Honda CR-V is a SUV, and it gets about 22MPG, mixed street/freeway.

BTW, the Escalade or Tahoe do not, cannot, carry passengers in style. No more than a burro can. I have a neighbor a Escalade — It’s very size knocks it out of the ‘Style’ category.

My boss’ Porsche 928 has style. ‘Style’ usually precludes anything with seating for more than two.

You Americans are crazy. In Europe, anything over 40MPG (7L/100km) is overkill. Standard cars like my Seat Ibiza 130HP Diesel are 55MPG (5,1L/100km). If you had prices like here you would consider this matter seriously:
1L diesel 0,95€ = $1,25/L = $5.6/galon
1L premium 1,1€ = $1,5/L = $6.75/galon

16MPG = 18L/100km = 27€/100km = 36$/100km = $58/100M

CRAZY!!!!

Soory guys, but mileage is not the only criterion when
buying a vehicle, there’s also utility (what will it be used for),
performance (many high milage cars are downright scary, getting
onto a superhighway), and handling (which often equates to the
ability NOT to have an accident).

A reasonable mix of all these is the ideal.

The “SUVs are evil” mentality isn’t just the gas hog issue but this feeling of the evil SUV also stems from the fact that some of the SUV drivers go off road and drive their vehicles in the unpaved world of the tundra. Yes some even make their own trail destroying plants and altering the ground below them.

The other reason why the SUV is so evil is because we might step on the toes of the elite who own luxury gas hogs. The double standard that our society seems to accept without any second thought. Those two faced elite who waist our time whining about us and NOT doing anything about it them selves…they just keep whining.

NOT YOU CHRIS… I meant the RICH

@AL100×100 - You mean anything *under* 40MPG is “underkill” (read: stupid).

You used the words “anything over (7L/100km is) overkill”. Like everywhere else in the world, fuel efficiency is read as amount of petrol per fixed distance.

The average American is used to reading fuel economy as distance per fixed amount of petrol.

You’re saying to the Americans: Anything UNDER 40MPG is STOOPID!

And I TOTALLY agree. I’m actually from Detroit, and I can’t wait to ditch my bloodsucking minivan for a VW Turbodiesel - too bad they’ve been discontinued until 2008, as VW is retooling their diesel engines for the recent changes in the US diesel formulation.

The Hummer gets it again…sheesh. These only account for the tiniest fraction of vehicles in the country and thus has statistically zero effect on the enviro. And it actually gets better mileage than the Ford Econoline Van. You gonna tell all the contractors they gotta turn in their work trucks? We just love hating things. Makes us feel superior.

Enjoy your RL, Chris. But you know, you don’t have to get raped at the pump. Ethanol blend fuel will run just fine in your car (89 octane).

I firmly believe that it is socially irresponsible for carmakers to advertise their gas guzzling SUV’s when so many Americans are faced with the choice of feeding their families or their cars. Advertising fueled the demand for SUV’s with images of the rough and tough pioneer blazing a path through rocks and streams. Even their names reflect that image which seems to have struck the right cord with the American couch potatoe. Most pickup trucks and SUV’s are designed and sold not for utility. The only cargo they will ever carry is the overblown ego of the owner. This is evident by the vast number of these monstrosities clogging up the rush hour roads and taking two spots in commuter parking lots The time has come to put the breaks on this irresponsible trend and consider the nation as a whole who can benefit from the demise of these personal statements of excess.

Let’s do an exercise…

Everyone in the room, please stand up. Now anyone that is married and has one child, please sit down. You may stay for the duration of the exercise. Everyone who has more than one child, knows what it is like to spend over $1000 on groceries every month, knows that a simple trip to the park entails several trips to the car to unload, you know who your are…please step to the front of the room.

Everyone else left standing, we respectfully ask you to leave the room and exit the debate over SUV’s. Your thoughts and opinions are heard, but so utterly out of touch with our needs that they border on useless. Oh, before you leave, I have heard your complaints over soccer moms driving empty SUV’s. Thank god there are not soccer games every day. But if the fact that my $1000 per month grocery bill precludes me from affording a THIRD car, a gas sipping, small car, then I have a solution. YOU are invited to purchase, at your expense, an economical car of your choice, and present that car to us free of charge.

THIRD you say…what is wrong with having ONE SUV to haul the family and ONE small economical car? Anyone? I know that those at the front of the room can answer this question.

With the room emptied of those who cannot possibly know what it is like to transport 2 tons worth of crap everywhere they go, the rest of us in the room and now sit down and intelligently discuss space needs versus fuel economy. Let’s proceed to have a lively discussion.

Oh and Stan, some of us define style NOT as how you look to other people, NOT as some sporty race type car, but as HOW COMFORTABLE you and your passengers are while traveling. Leg room, head room and a place to put your arms…now that is going in style.

Ever notice how people who love their cars get great gas milage and people who do not like their cars get poor gas milage?
How many do the math each and every fill up to see what they really get?

I had an Acura the second year they cam out. It was a very good car and the gas costs back then was one-third it is now. The Acura RL was created to fit a certain niche and to be a high performace car against what Ford, Chrysler, and GM are making. However, with the high-performace comes a price–of hi octane gas and a poor gas milage. Our fearless leader knew what he was buying before he purchased the car because he knew what he wanted. I did the same choice but not in a performace car. I purchased a PT Cruiser and comparing the PT with a Honda and Toyota, the PT is far worse. Plus, it may have the looks but that is all. Chrysler is hanging on the fact that it has retro styling and the people purchasing the car is doing a “trade-off” for the looks for something far better in a Honda or Toyota. But, I got caught up in the $4000 rebate and 0 % financing and Honda and Toyota are never that despirate.

It’s aperformance car. As long as you don’t hjave to do long daily commutes it’s fine. You can cut expenses two ways. Drive a less fuel consuming car OR drive less (and still have the performance car).
I do the same. An M3 for fun drives, and a corolla for the daily (boring ) miles.
Best of both worlds, right in my garage.

You are right Fred

In used to European L/100km units. Low consumption means lower L/100km and higher MPG.

I’ve read that many carmakers will soon introduce diesel engines in USA market. But I think the main problem is not only petrol vs diesel it’s also the size of the cars. Do you (Americans) really need so huge cars?
Why 4.0L (or more) engines for your ridiculous low speed limits? Or for picking up your sons from school in the city…
I don’t understand…

Do we need our large cars? Check the size of tha average American Vs the size of the average European. GM cars are downsized to the point I can’t drive ANY of them. Comfort-spending 2 hrs on commute is not unheard of here, how much time does the aveage commute take in, say France?

4 hours per day commuting? look for another job.

Bigger is better. It’s safer, more comfortable. Although they are less environmental friendly, I prefer the big cars, as long as it’s possible.

I can speak from bith sides of the Atlantic, I’m a Brit who lives in California & recently went back to the UK & germany for a visit.
As there is a different in the size of the UK Gallon (slightly bigger) compared to the US gallon it is better to use the Litre equivalent.
Having said that I can tell you that Litre for Litre Gas in the UK is about 5 times that of even here in San Diego. That is why you will find the majority of cars on the road are about the size of a PT Cruiser but with diesel engines. The argument that for family size of more than 1 needs an SUV is not totally valid. In the UK we have very good friends who have 3 kids one with ADD & they manage with a midsized people mover!
Oh by the way commute times in the UK - before I moved to SD 14 years ago my average was 2.5 hours one for a distance of around 35 miles beacause of traffic. I was driving a 1.9L Citreon Diesel Turbo, very comfortable thank you.
Here in SD, which we love, my wife drives a VW GOLF TDI (one of the last diesels in california average 45 -50MPG). I drive a VW 2.0L Turbo Passat (20 to 35mpg) I would have bought a diesel version but as someone said you can’t get it here!
My ten penneth…

Toyota Camry 5SFE 4 cyl — rated 21mpg city / 29 hwy. Gets 25-28 City (using AC) 25-29 in the fall, 34-36 hwy. No problem on the superhighways except for the fact that it feels the same at 80mph as it does at 65 and I had to upgrade the exhaust to keep from dozing off at long lights. Unless I’m in the mood for fun, I keep the ECT off and tend to stay below 3500 RPM when leaving the line and keep shift points close together. Underpowered? Hardly.

When I returned from Japan in 2003, I looked at the Corolla (pre 2003) but changed my mind when I was on the highway among the big rigs.

What bothers me about SUVs is how people spend money to spend more money by buying large US made SUVs that go upside down in value within 3 years and THEN proceed to spend thousands on those oversized rims which reduce the utility value of the vehicle, reduce the gas mileage, wear out the supsensions and serve no use. Why not buy the lightest, sportiest rim with the right tire size that doesn’t produce diminishing returns. Those vehicles do serve a purpose and do it well for those who need them, but I wonder how well or better a Subaru Outback Station Wagon would work for many large SUV owners?