Reflections

Photo Enforced Red Light Cameras – Are They Legal Or Just Revenue Generators?

Posted by on Mar 27, 2010 | 9 Comments

If you are not familiar with the photo enforced red light camera system, there are several different systems being employed by various companies. The least expensive system and the most controversial is the system that takes a picture of your rear plate as you go through the intersection. The controversial aspect of the system is that it is your car that gets ticketed no matter who the driver is. As an example, if you drop your car off for an auto repair and if they test drive your car and bust a red light, you get the ticket.

The second controversy involves the fact that there is no judicial way for the owner of the vehicle to protest the citation. This is a strictly administrative procedure by the locals and not a motor vehicle violation that involves the state nor the state motor vehicle divisions. So if your car gets caught on camera, there is just a fine and no points go against your driver’s license.

What brought this situation to my attention is in two parts. Part one involves the city of Springfield, MO, which is near where I reside. A local law enforcement officer was ticketed for a red light violation that he sought to protest. He found there was no judicial option and that the citation was an administrative procedure by the city. He obtained the services of an attorney and took the case up to the state Supreme Court. Several weeks ago the court ruled that the red light cameras that just took a photo of the plate were illegal and was the lack of judicial procedures to protest a citation. The basics were that the city needed to show who was driving the car and allow for a judicial procedure as well. The city was forced to turn off the cameras. Drivers who have been cited the $150 fine for running a red are now asking for as refund.

The second part is that I was recently visiting our second daughter and her family. I was following my son-in-law in traffic in an area of town that I was not familiar with. I followed him through a yellow light, which turned red as I reached the limit line. No doubt about it, I was in the wrong and saw the flash of the camera as I passed through the intersection. I’m bad. In speaking the following day with an acquaintance, he mentioned that the system is a money generator for the town. Also that if you don’t pay the fine it is turned over to collections and there is no formal way to protest the ticket.

My question is this: Should this be legal?

Opinions please.

PS I will be paying the fine since I was definitely in the wrong. :-)

  • Rufus

    I live in Indiana, but was in St. Louis just last weekend (3/21/10). I can attest to the fact that the cameras are indeed still functioning. The flash at the intersection at the edge of Forest Park certainly caught my attention and I explained to my wife what it was.

    • http://wp3.lockergnome.com/nexus/blade/ Ron Schenone

      Thanks everyone for the comments.

      Marc,
      If I lived in Texas I would certainly be tempted to get a lawyer.

      Rufus,
      I’m not sure how St. Louis operates their system. As I mentioned, there are different procedures and camera systems in place around the country.

      Eric,
      This is my first ticket since I was 16 years old.

      Buffet,
      That is a thought. LOL

      Theodore,
      Makes sense.

  • Rufus

    My bad. I see that the *city* of Springfield was forced to turn the cameras off. But if the state Supreme Court decreed that the process was illegal, why wouldn’t every city need to turn them off? Perhaps St. Louis provides some judicial recourse for the “offenders”?

  • http://wp3.lockergnome.com/nexus/theoracle/ the oracle

    The traffic camera is something I find especially interesting, since I just returned from Arizona, where the cameras are found on city streets, country roads, and every lane of the major freeways. It clearly gives a way to deter those who are paying attention, lower the number of patrol officers tasked with catching speeders, and no doubt brings in lots of dollars.

    I don’t know how it is in all states, but it seems that the battle has already been won in Arizona, which I’m told is one of the most litigious states in the nation.

    I have never seen anything quite like it, as there are places on the I-10 where there are 6 lanes of traffic, 3 in each direction, and far to the side of the freeway, high enough to get a good vantage point, are 12 cameras, which I would assume are tied together by a timer to give a very accurate speed determination.

    For your problem, I wonder if the camera has your picture, establishing who actually was in the vehicle (and perhaps that you are simply not aware of it).

    The fact that there is no way to fight it in court is a big problem, and the fact that it doesn’t go against a driving record would indicate to the uninvolved observer exactly what the purpose was. The fact that there is no judicial relief (on the surface) is, in this street lawyer’s opinion, a problem, as you have no way to face your accuser.) …something about one of those pesky first ten amendments-

    It surprises me that a class action against the cities involved has not been undertaken.

  • V. T. Eric Layton

    Something about this just makes me uncomfortable. I’m not a naughty driver by any stretch of the imagination. It says “Safe Driver” on my license. I’ve only had three tickets in 30+ years of driving; none were for running red lights.

    There is controversy brewing in the Tampa area right now about this very topic. They’ve recently installed the cameras at just a few of the busiest intersections and have already collected buckets of shekels.

    There’s something Big Brother-ish about it. It just doesn’t feel to me as if it should be legal. It feels wrong. As for the legality of these devices and practices… well, I’m not a lawyer. I don’t even play one on TV, so it’s hard to say.

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  • Buffet

    Assuming that the camera would have to be mounted relatively low, based on the angle of trajectory required to photograph license plates, I can tell you this – Were I compelled to pay the odious fine, I would subsequently be compelled to enact my vengeance against my automated ‘judge and jury’, becoming it’s executioner! The last photo it ever took would be of my boot (while carefully averting my face). Of noteworthy interest: The upstanding citizen in the fourth paragraph is having to part with his hard earned dough, while the corrupt criminal in paragraph three (who happens to be a pig), gets away with murder!!! How typical. If they want 150.00 from me, they’re welcome to try and take it. Perhaps you should enlist the aid of the same lawyer?

  • Theodore

    I remember seeing these in Europe, specifically Germany. They not only had them for red lights but speeding as well. On the one hand, as you mentioned, there is no way to dispute the charge. However, is it really disputable? A picture of a car clearly going over the line after the red light is kind of unmistakable. Regardless of who is driving the car, the registered owner would have to be responsible. It also keeps the police available for real crimes instead of sitting behind a bush waiting for someone to run a light. Sure, it creates revenue for the city as well, but this will (should) go into improving the roads and other public uses.

  • Kevin Bailey

    If these really do make money perhaps a better way of doing it might be to hire a traffic enforcement officer, get a vehicle for them and install a bunch of counters at every light controlled intersection in town. Have a program developed to collect the red light violation numbers at each intersection and send the officer to the highest abuse intersection on record until another intersection surpasses it through more violation or a reduction in violations at that intersection because of enforcement. Just keep following this pattern. The counter and software could also help to recognize patterns of abuse this intersection during rush hour this one during lunch hour, another intersection during weekend, that one following happy hour etc.