How OpenOffice Probably Cost Me a Job

most places will accept a .PDF, and then the formatting is 100% in your control

While I do understand the frustration, even when you view .doc files in different versions of Word, you run the very same risk.

I would always go with mailing a hard copy of a resume or, if you have to do it digitally, lock the formatting into a .pdf. If the potential employer still insists on getting a copy in .doc format, definitely send it with a disclaimer that formatting may vary depending on the version of Word they’re using. If they know anything about computers, this shouldn’t be a shocker.

Also, I hate to point you in the direction of another free Microsoft Office solution since you had such a bad experience with OpenOffice, but have you tried Google Docs? I’ve found it to play better with Microsoft-originating files than OpenOffice.

I also understand your frustration about this. But blaming OpenOffice for this failure – or even worse (as you do) free software in general – only tells us that you’re ignorant! The .DOC file format is binary and proprietary and one can be lucky that the ability to read or even write this format with OpenOffice is there anyway. As already posted the very same problems with formatting can occur when you exchange complex .doc files between different versions of word or even when you “save as” .doc in Office since version 2007!

I personally would NEVER send a resume as .DOC file as this in itself shows a great lack of knowledge about computer use (which is considered crucial in my job ) and I personally would NEVER work for an employer who is unable to read .PDF files (everyone has or at least COULD have adobe reader or foxit reader installed) or even worse insited(!) on getting .DOC files. Not only for obvious (formatting) reasons but also for security reasons (PDF files can be better protected than DOC files)…

So maybe I’m getting a bit blunt here but in this very case I can’t see the bigger problem in the software but in the user…

oo that sucks

I often submit such documents as PDFs, printed via a free PDF printer like CutePDF. It’s unfortunate that there is no true unified editable document standard – but at least PDFs will look the same for everyone.

I had the same issue with OpenOffice spreadsheets. They looked totally different in Microsoft Office and some of my formulas didn’t even work. I use Google spreadsheets now and it seem to be a lot more compatible with excel than OpenOffice Spreadsheets.

I did the EXACT same thing – sent off 5 different CVs with cover letters that I’d written in open office but saved in .doc format. I had to resend them, but I doubt they bothered reading the second ones.

OOo needs to save things properly, really. I think it’s if you use tables, bullets, or custom margins, it ruins it. Meh, now I just use GDocs which only makes minor mistakes :]

Oh, and one other thought – the Word ‘viewer’ applications for both 2003 and 2007 are freely available. Using them, you can always at least preview what your document will look like in both versions.

2003: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=95E24C87-8732-48D5-8689-AB826E7B8FDF&displaylang=en

2007: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=3657ce88-7cfa-457a-9aec-f4f827f20cac&displaylang=en

Sure blame the software for your own mistake. It is your responsibility to check for these formatting issues. Open office even warns you about this when you go to save in a non-odt format. Also you have to be careful what .doc version you save as. Opening the wrong doc version with the wrong word version can cause troubles.
Best bet is to use pdf instead or just plain text. I send both format when ever sending a resume. Some employers use machine readers, so text is the best in those cases.

I agree with the previous poster. Lock important documents into PDF format. Most employers will take a PDF copy instead of a .doc copy. There are open source PDF creators available. I use PDF Creator. You can find it at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/. It does a great job.

Good luck in your job search!

OpenOffice, AbiWord, and even Google Docs only works if everyone else is using it.

Even Google Docs will fail when saving in .doc and then having someone else view it in Word 2007

Or even trying to collaborate with other people who want to use .xdoc

OpenSource still lives with warning “Use with caution”

Totally agree to Robert. Microsoft Word does not play nicely even from one version to another !

You should always use also PDF (and OpenOffice does a great job here !)

Always ALWAYS export to PDF before mailing out. Between different versions of word and people not being able to open .docx, sending out in PDF is a MUST. It also looks more professional IMHO

“Maybe it works if you save the document in the ODP format, but the option of saving it as a DOC shouldn’t even be there if it doesn’t look the same when you close and open the file.”

Well, save it in the ODP format and then simply use the “Export as…” option. So you have no probs with the look afterwards.And by the way : You should never send any .doc – files, when you like to send it in a digital form. They all prefer the pdf format.
So the problem is not OpenOffice I guess

I use OpenOffice for everything that i don’t use GoogleDocs for (GoogleDocs is better, I find, for sharing and collaborating).

Thankfully, OpenOffice gives me the option to export the document as a .pdf and everyone can view pdf.

Who needs .doc anymore, when you have pdf? Cross-platform, even.

Sorry about your luck.

This article is woefully incorrect. Stop blaming hard working open source developers because Microsoft intentionally obscure their formats to stifle competition

it is microsofts fault that you didn’t get the job, and nobody elses.

Like previous commenter says, if Microsoft can’t properly render their own formats, what chance has anyone else got?

Isn’t that what PDFs are for?

like free PDF creating software…primoPDF

Even with Word, you will run into problems.

People have different versions of Word and different versions show things differently. I’ve noticed this especially at the university when doing group assignments and sending .docs to each other – the .doc turns into a mess really quickly! Nowadays we try to get the same version for everyone.

If no one needs to modify the .doc, you should _always_ use a static format, preferably PDF There are great PDF printers (e.g. PDFCreator) which help you with creating PDFs.

Oh, and OpenOffice can export directly as PDF! That’s a cool feature!

Of course if the employer only accepts .doc, that’s another thing…

Few ways to get around this:

Firstly I know that OpenOffice can save as a PDF but what I would be more inclined to do is install “CutePDF Writer”  www.cutepdf.com) – installs as a printer but actually saves the file as a PDF. At least you know that the agency cannot tamper with your file then, and you know EXACTLY how it is going to appear.

As Robert just mentioned, Google Docs is another choice, although here it is NOT recommended (why, not sure).

Thirdly, why not stick a few resumés/CV’s on sites like monster.com and LinkedIn.com and ask the agency to view them there – if they are worth their salt, they should be using these mediums. Although after being on Monster for over eight years, I HATE the way it renders for the employer/agency.

Just my few cents worth.

I have no personally used Open Office, but I’m wondering, could you not have saved it in a PDF Format? Or perhaps used Google Docs?

~Calvin

Not sure what kind of job you’re looking for, but if it has anything to do with IT, you better get the document right!

And as mentioned, the best way would be to send it as PDF file. That way you can check the layout before sending, and you don’t have to worry if the receiver have Word 2.0, Works 1.0, Office 2012 or whatver.

Personally, I would never apply for a job, where they demand me to send a DOC file … for me that would be a signal, that they have completely missed the whole IT evolution.

[...] Could OpenOffice have cost someone a potential job? [...]

[...] Could OpenOffice have cost someone a potential job? [...]

Yes indeed. I use GoogleDocs for more than a year and it must certainly work. I’ve made my CV last year with it, about 6 pages and worked very well and reliably. I’ve even do my finances with the spreadsheet. I must say it’s a good alternative.

Robert is right. For important documents to be delivered digitally, it’s better to start off with PDF, which is a standard format and about anyone can read it.

I feel sorry about your experience which cost you possibly the job. All the best for next time!

Think it a bit unfair to blame open office (which I hasten to add I don’t use, nor do I work for any orgnaisation associated with it ).
Even sending Word documents isn’t guaranteed to work – the page formatting seems to depend on the default printer of the person reading the document. I have sent and received Word documents that were displayed differently than intended by their creator – though not as drastically different as oztech found.

I would endorse the idea that you should send it as a pdf, that way it shold be locked – and there are a number of free pdf creators around!!

I’ve never understood the recruitment field’s fascination with the DOC format. As Robert suggests, I always start with the PDF because it’s simply the right tool (or format) for the job (sorry for the pun). Open Office even has a built-in PDF export, while a downloadable plugin exists for MS Word 2007 (http://bit.ly/NlqJp).

Any word processing format (even Open Office’s ODF) is really not intended for publishing and distribution, and I sympathise and call on all recruitment professionals reading this to move to PDF as a preferred format for CV submission. As Robert indicates, importing a non-native format is always risky, and your highly skilled candidates are getting lost in translation…

I don’t think you can hold that just against Open Office. You run into the same mismatched formatting issues from one version of Word to another.

That’s why I always use Open Office’s PDF export (something Word doesn’t do natively) if I’m giving someone else the file. PDF looks the same no matter what.

I remain on my idea: I really apreciate free software, but the standard is another one and if free software is not 200% compatible with the standard, it makes the alternative a non alternative because of lack of trust.

[...] Again on free software ozthech at Lockergnome tells us a story on his problems with Open office (full article at http://www.lockergnome.com/oztech/2009/07/30/how-openoffice-probably-cost-me-a-job). [...]

I have found that OpenOffice has done a great job with my resume. It all just depends how the document is formatted. If you keep the layout simple and use tables to maintain multiple columns, translation into other formats will work just fine. The following article provides some great tips on ensuring consistency between the various office programs.

http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid39_gci1186330_mem1,00.html

I’ve had this problem before, and it seems to be related to number and type of edits made, not the actual program. What I mean is that if you could type it with no mistakes, in one pass, all should be well.

Since most of us can’t do that well, I usually save, and do editing in rich text format, and after all the bugs are out, move it to doc format – this has worked for me numerous times. As a check, I always have the MS Word Viewer on the machine, to check just before sending.

I’ve also had this problem before. I’d go with locking things to a (reasonably) secure .pdf format when doing anything important! I have problems sometimes going from iWork to Word; and with the formatting change with Word for it’s 2010 version, it’ll probably happen no matter what program you use. *Unless you use Microsoft word that is.*

a solution would be to print the OO document to PDF. At least you could have a better chance of universal appearance.

Why on earth wouldn’t you save your resume as a PDF?

I would never send an important document in an editable format!

Yup, if you really care about placement of things you need to save it as a PDF. Then look at it to make sure everything is good. Only send DOC if someone needs to edit the document (PDF can actually have fillable form elements in them if they only need to do simple completion)

Since .DOC is a proprietary format, the only way that the OO.o guys were able to add in support for opening and saving those files is through reverse engineering. I’m sure if MS was to allow them the option to *look* at the internal file structure, there would be a much higher compatibility. So the argument runs full circle: OO.o should comply with the .DOC format better, but can’t because they don’t know the internals of the format. It’s like trying to recreate the Mona Lisa in a room with no windows, and the only light is coming through a crack underneath the door. Only recently has there been a release of the specification (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc313153.aspx), but with major changes going on with that document *less than a month ago* in terms of templating, I’m sure that inconsistencies still arise from time to time.

I’m also amused at the notion of .DOC being “a standard.” There really isn’t, and hasn’t been, a standardization process for MS Office documents. The reason that .DOC is the major contender is because of it’s ubiquity in the office setting; kind of like when Lotus 1-2-3 was the go-to spreadsheet software in the early 90’s.

The other suggestions provided (using PDF and RTF, as well as hard copies) are both good ideas. You could also use HTML to set it, which is fully editable in either Office suites.

Yep… the mastermind plan still works on you…

From: Bill Gates
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 1998
To: Bob Muglia, Jon DeVann, Steven Sinofsky
Subject: Office rendering
One thing we have got to change in our strategy – allowing
Office documents to be rendered very well by other people’s
browsers is one of the most destructive things we could do to
the company.
We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that
Office documents very well depends on PROPRIETARY IE capa-bilities.
Anything else is suicide for our platform. This is a case where
Office has to avoid doing something to destroy Windows.
I would be glad to explain at a greater length.
Likewise this love of the standard DAV in Office/Exchange is a
huge problem. I would also like to make sure people under-
stand this as well.

I have had similar problems in writing and emailing essays to college instructors. Luckily they are okay with rich text format. Regardless, I took the 150 dollar plunge to acquire Microsoft word 2008 for Mac and still had problems. I eventually discovered that it must be saved in word 2003 format to be compatible with Microsoft word 2007 for Pc. Just a brief word to let you know you are not alone in the world of frustrations brought on by word processors.

I hate it when Microsoft screws up like that. One of the reasons IBM got relegated to such a minor role in the personal computer business was, it couldn’t guarantee compatibility in the “IBM compatible” market.

That’s one of the reasons I refuse to save documents in a Microsoft format unless another party has to open the document for edit. I agree with the posts above. .doc isn’t a standard format for sharing documents. .rft and .pdf are.

Again, saving in DOC is supposed to be a FEATURE of the program. If I save it in DOC format and can’t even open it back up in the same program and have it look right, it shouldn’t be a feature in the program. The only reason it’s in the software is so that OpenOffice can tout itself as a Microsoft Office substitute. WordPerfect saves in DOC just fine, as do others.

As for the people saying to save in PDF, while this is a good idea, most employers will not accept a PDF. They specifically say to send in DOC format.

WTF OzTech? Are you like a blatant wind job for MSFT or what?

With the energy you used to write this crappy blog entry, you could have made a quick tutorial on what to do to ensure that a Resume looks good in .doc format when using alternative Office Suites.

You could have shared links to sites for people to learn more about how to leverage open formats and free/open programs to their benefit, but no… instead – you come off sounding like Steve Ballmer’s personal shoe shiner.

You are right about one thing… OpenOffice.org is NOT MS-Office… This is a GOOD thing!!

Tell people how to make stuff work instead of placing a particular product, from which you probably get some type of benefit for promoting, as being the ONLY solution.

The world can and will continue forward without MS-Office buddy… count on it!

So for the others that wasted their time reading this post as well, go and checkout the link below for solutions instead of problems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_suite

And BTW, it is not necessary to fold to Ballmer’s screeches and purchase MS-Office, or to discontinue use of Free/Open software to get a job.

I’ve had good success formatting resumes in RTF format. Resumes rarely need to be uber fancy and rtf, while old school, is steady as a rock.

This is just another reason why .doc must die in favor of OpenDocument, which is an open standard and is not tied to a single vendor.

Anyway, I never met a company which would reject a good candidate because his resume is in the wrong format, and a similar company would hardly be a nice place to work! Personally, I always used PDF for resumes without any problem.

One other option is to reformat your resume to a simpler layout. Instead of having left margin titles with right margin content, try using bolded / underlined headings of a different font / size with content beneath. The content could then have sub-titles of unique fonts too. Don’t rely on tabs and justification, as these can be interpreted differently.

This way, no matter what editor you are using to view your resume, be it any version of Office, or Open Office, or Google Docs, it SHOULD look the same.

You could maintain two versions, one for printing that you can format any way you wish, and a simplified version for emailing.

And maybe provide an URL in your resume to an online HTML/CSS version. The HTML version can have links to previous employer’s web sites, or examples of your work (depending on what you do), etc. Keep in mind also different browsers render HTML differently, so the above suggestions would apply here too.

I recently had similar formatting problems with bullets in my resume.

I have also see cases where the same version of word on XP will format slightly different than on Vista. The issue is slight changes in the fonts. I spent hours getting my sections and headers printing properly only to find that my first page spilled to a second earlier than expected on another machine.

Most recruiters simply cut and paste your nicely formatted masterpiece into a form they send to their client. I have seen examples where this totally ruins my formatting. When I have received comments about the formatting, I respond with something about Microsoft not keeping 100% compatibility from one version to the next and I save in the most compatible version.

I’m a highly skilled experienced embedded microprocessor systems programmer. I’m only interested in jobs within my local market. Microprocessor control is in everything these days; you would think there would be a huge demand for such skills. Yet, 95% of the calls I get are for positions in other areas.

Then there are the employers who insist upon N Yrs experience in a specific cross-compiler / integrated development environment, when I have used over a dozen just like it over the years and can be up and running within minutes. The recruiter typically only knows to match the keywords.

Bottom line, correct the formatting issues by avoiding the features that trigger the problem. Use .txt with an offer to provide printable formats like PDF upon request. If possible keep the formatting simple. It is a tough market.

Exo

screw microsoft…

I’m not gonna pay them to bend me over.

There are plenty of programs available to make a document for FREE.

IMO, a Resume doesn’t need to be that schnazzy in terms of style anyway – I mean it’s not like you’re going to add pictures, borders, TOC, etc. to it anyway.

If you don’t like OpenOffice, try the more-MS-centric fork go-oo.org, Lotus Symphony, Google Docs, Zoho, etc.

Checkout this site for more information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_suite

Its a huge problem that employers ask for things in .doc format in the first place. A number of people have said that the author should have saved it in .pdf or another format. I feel that’s rubbish.

A look through internet employment agencies and employer listings in my area shows the overwhelming majority asking for things in .doc format. Its unfortunate that the formatting isn’t always correct, and often just horrible from the sound of things written by other people here – when using software not sold by Microsoft

Taking this all very literally as a detail that’s been an annoyance for me in the past, a person should technically be able to claim their purchase of the Software, and the OS that they had to run it on (Windows) as basic living necessities and claim taxes accordingly. I ran Linux for quite some time and felt it would have been a real imposition for someone to say “Buy Windows, make a new partition, buy Office… etc”.

When I was running Linux, to make sure that I wasn’t sending out poorly formatted documents as viewed on someone else’s machine, I installed my old copy of Office 2000 in WINE, and currently I’m far less concerned about it but I run OS X and have compiled the Linux version of WINE, through macports, that supports the same setup. Later, in Linux and as I’ll be forced to at some point in OS X, I ran Windows in a virtual machine so I could install compatibility updates that were released when Office 2007s file format came out.

I’m annoyed to now find out that things are not uniform from one version of office to the other especially since there was a compatibility update released for Office 2000 when 2007 was new. It that now we have to upgrade my wife’s business machine’s software.

I’ve left the topic, but to come back to it, if someone must be blamed for the confusion it should be the person who’s asking for the non-standard document format to begin with, which is the potential employer who’s stating they want MS document formatted material.
As far as I know, PDF is also a non-standard file format regardless of cross platform support.

I don’t know if blame should be cast or not, but it seems like these problems wont go away until someone actually has to pay out damages in a legal settlement… its the American way of change and its permeated the rest of the western world. I look forward to that day since there’s really no other alternative. I’m going to be rather pissed off the day I have to buy Windows 7 to stay up to date with a world where corporations make my decisions for me… and like I was saying, some of these things should be considered fundamental living requirements.

Even after being forced to buy Windows 7, the other posts here indicate that I’m still screwed when it comes to the recipient of a resume or C.V. viewing a properly formatted document. I think I’m repeating myself but I can’t emphasise enough, just how irritating that is for me… even as someone who isn’t currently (yet) effected by it.

This is TOTALLY microsoft’s fault because they break stuff on purpose and don’t share specs so that other people can compete in their business.

If you really think about it, the idea of doing such a thing is very destructive from a standpoint of technological progress.

The status quo used to be that you would have to buy the MS office (or other) product to have any advanced word processing capabilities at all. But now computing technology has reached the point where such basic word processing functionality is common enough that it’s an expected and essential application for every computer.

Such basic functionality in a computer is not only expected to be included with the purchase price of the computer, but is deserved!

Computer hardware makers are making computers that cost $200, there’s simply NO REASON we should still be paying an additional $200 for having the capability to use the word processing feature. There’s a major discrepancy in this pricing model and it MUST stop!

So the only reason that microsoft is still able to keep control over you and make you pay $200 for the office in the first place is because they are not willing to work with the rest of the technology community enough to ensure that competitors can make a product that shares the same formats and functionality to be able to share documents.

This is where every one of us makes a difference! It’s time to Put your foot down and vote with your dollars!! If companies want to try to abuse open/interoperable standards, and thus degrade proper evolution of technology, DON’T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS!!

It’s up to us to DOOM those companies that use their weight to force out competition and purposely break standards for only their own gain in the long run.

This is exactly why Google is kicking microsoft’s behind – because Google strives to provide more open/interoperable technology that can be shared across standard programs and various platforms.

Down with Monopoly of document formats and operating systems!

ever heard of PDF format???
Honestly if you didn’t know, that with PDF you would have total control of the format of your document on any operating system,then you totally deserved to loose those jobs… ¬¬

[...] Could OpenOffice have cost someone a potential job? [...]

The same is often the case when opening files in OpenOffice that were created in MS Office. It goes both ways.

Someone that *wants* a resume as a Word format document by email is clueless enough that I wouldn’t work for them; on a good day I would send a PDF to educate them .

Somebody should create a standard XML template to hold resume information, plus an editor to input the resume data. XML style sheets can be created to view the resume details, and/or a separate viewer utility.

Different employers can view ALL their resumes in a consistent format/layout, however they prefer. Embedding formatting into a resume would be a thing of the past. Just email your resume.xml file.

Example:

Chris
Pirillo
Tech City
chirs@pirillo . com
etc…

Harvard
1990
English 101
Harvard taught me valuable . . . .
etc…

etc…

Oops . . . it seemed to have stripped all XML tags.
Of course it would have!
Dang XML being a close relative of HTML!
Is there a CODE directive I could have used?

But you get the point . . .
that XML would be the BEST method of transferring resumes to prospective employers. (Prove me wrong people!)
How does one go about starting a new standard? ha

So is that a problem with Open Office or with Word?

Also depends on what you were trying to accomplish with your résumé…being clever with formatting and/or fonts or keeping it plain and simple.

You can also send it to a friend ahead of time who has Word and ask them to take a look at it for you. Of download Microsoft’s free Word reader and take a look.

It is a poor workman who blames his tools!