ACLU to defend amish in buggy case

Boy we really have to cater to the lowest common denominator, don’t we?
Sheesh! Use your eyes!

Hello,

Perhaps it has something to do with visibility? Although I have only seen them on TV or the movies, the buggies portrayed on screen have always been painted black without any adornment.

Adding reflective tape, stickers or the aforementioned slow moving vehicle signs may be a public safety issue.

To use a ludicrous example, what if people who drove automobiles were offended by the red lights from their brakes and decided to disable them. Would you want them driving on roads around your neighborhood or city?

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

Hey, I lived in KY for six years. The Amish never had a problem before.

No one is forcing them to use the sign except when they drive (or ride if you prefer) on the roads - especially when there are high volumes of vehicle traffic.

If they don’t use the signs, they are asking to get smeared all over the road, esp. by 18 wheelers that whiz by them - and yes, they do whiz by - because the Amish will often drive their buggies down four lane major roads where 18 wheelers drive up and down all day long.

It’s not a 1st Amendment right because the 1st Amendment is about “freedom to practice religion”.

Having to use a sign on your vehicle to indicate it is a “slow moving vehicle” is not a RELIGIOUS issue. How can a sign that is required on a vehicle, be a “religious” issue.

Think about that for a second.

KY is not requiring them to put a Star of David, or a cross, or Muslim crescent on their buggy - just a sign so that they don’t get KILLED. Something I think everyone would understand and appreciate.

This is just an attempt to use religion to justify not complying with the law.

Here’s the deal: Use the sign, or don’t drive the buggies on paved roads. It’s that simple.

BlackWolf

The suit is ridiculous. This is one of the handful of cases the ACLU digs up every year to show how “balanced” it is - when their major efforts are really all about promoting liberal causes.

First, driving is a priviliege, not a right. Therefore, it’s moot arguement to begin with.

Second, the addition of the reflective triangle to the back of thier buggy is no more a “worldly” than a bright blue or yellow shirt which Amish men wear regularly.

Third, they have an obligation to reasonably keep OTHERS safe on a PUBLIC road. The concern is not about their safety, but the safety of others. An all black, slow moving, slow-responding vehicle has to have some way of warning others (particularly at night). This is why everyone must have brakelights and turning signals.

Fourth, the case is a waste of everyone’s time and money.

Obviously you have never been going 55 mph and topped a hill on a two lane highway to suddenly encounter either a ‘buggy’ in your lane goine 5 mph or someone passing one from the other direction using your lane to get around.

I suppose you can just trust God or you could use the brain He gave you to warn others about the slow moving vehicle with whatever device may keep your family alive.
Are you aware that they even travel at night??
Does anyone care that the life they save may be their own?
Do they have the right to sue if they are run over?

I live in east central Illinois 40 miles from some amish communities. All of their buggies have the orange triangle and lights on them. I have never heard of any of them around here complaining about it. It’s a fact of life if they want to travel on the roads.

I agree, use your eyes people and a little common sense. Regardless of the speed limit, it is your job as a driver to adjust to conditions.

Anything could be waiting for you in your lane on the other side of a blind hill and you need to be aware of that be prepared. A safe, attentive driver should not need blinking lights or signs to alert them to a road hazard.

A buggy in the road is no surprise to me when I’m driving in Amish country. Slow moving farm equipment and stray animals are pretty common too. If you can’t see the road ahead, slow down.

Philly Gal: Obviously you just don’t realize how much easier it is to see a vehicle with lights, and reflective warning sign on it than one that doesn’t have anything on it at all - and to top it off, the Amish paint their buggies black. A black buggy, on a pitch black night, is almost impossible to see - even if you’re ONLY doing 25 MPH - but then, you probably have never really learned that you want to make yourself as visible as possible when traveling anywhere at night. 5 MPH buggy, vs. 25 or 35 MPH car - way UNDER the speed limit on some roads these buggies travel on - do the math. It’s a frivolous and wasteful lawsuit that YOU and I have to PAY for with OUR taxes!

BlackWolf

I understand about the use of “lights* ” being against their religion - but how is an orange triangle any different than a sign that reads “Blacksmith”???

Not only is a simple sign a SAFETY issue (for them as well as the rest of us) - but it is a TRAFFIC LAW that we ALL have to follow.

The mission statement of the ACLU is “to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States”

Notice the word LAWS in there - guess THEY (the ACLU) didn’t ;););)

* As long as they aren’t driving at night

What’s obvious to me is that the law is blaming the buggies when the truth is it’s almost always careless motorized driving that is to blame for accidents.

Blackwolf: Perhaps you should get your headlights checked. If they’re not aimed correctly, you really could have a much harder time seeing the road ahead at night.

If we would stop passing unnecessary laws, we wouldn’t have to pay anything to defend them.

I live in Lancaster County PA within a few hundred feet of amish owned proerties. I bet my neighbor would not take his sign off of his vehicle in PA. I have seen many buggy accidents none are pretty. This is reality here not a rights issue. I also ride motorcycle and if I could prevent an accident from anyone at anytime on a motorcycle I would do almost anything I could voluntarily to prevent it…..you are talking lives not what God says about their lives…..common people,,,I agree open your eyes…..not looking for buggies on a perfect lighted tourist area road….Open your eyes to the accidents that now happen wothout this kind of bull even being thought of…..What a waste of time……Let them take the plates off they NEVER sue people anyways…even to ask that is not to know anything about the Amish community. Most likely if they are threatened with a lawsuit to fix my car as I rearend them on my backroads they would fork over the money to have my car repaired……Well i am glad here in PA people have common sense to begin with to accept responsibility for themselves and there families to poretect what they have!
Next thing you know we will pass a law saying people do not have to wear helmets and be responsible on motorcycles…..Ohh yeah we already did that! When we had a helmet law I used to say if you have a 5$ head goto a yard sale and buy a 5$ helmet….Now I guess if you head is useless don’t wear a helmet! Why bother fighting a law when the people it is meant to protect don’t want protected?

Who would’ve thought this topic would be the most commented on part of the blog?

Thank you for your comments. I especially appreciate that you have made your statements and not gotten personal. The only thing I ask is that we do not attack each other.

Mike - on helmets: I find it interesting that PA has no helmet law yet they have a seatbelt law. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree on their merits, I don’t believe it’s the state’s business to legislate it. While I’m on a tear, drunk stops are unconstitutional. It’s illegal search, period.

BlackWolf - I lived in KY for a few years in the late 60’s. My mom moved us to PA (I was little). I heard horror stories about living there.

`It’s not a 1st Amendment right because the 1st Amendment is about “freedom to practice religion”. ‘

The state shall make no law, etc. It *is* about religion, just like muslim women and their head coverings. The rulings are generally that the right to practice (including wearing head scarves or NOT having worldly goods) comes before the laws they’re disputing.

Aryeh - it is a visibility issue, as you state. However your example is apples and oranges. The Amish are claiming a religious exemption.. they’re not offended. Yes, safety is important, but I’m addressing the legal aspects of the case (as I understand them). The case sounds reasonable to me legally, even though I’d probably prefer signs and lights.

Legally speaking, I understand that drivers are responsible for remaining in control of their vehicles at all times (even when some idiot in front of you stops driving to answer his phone). Philly Gal makes this point.

Thanks again for your insight.

Here in Ohio, the Amish have used the orange triangles for as long as I can remember. It took them a while longer to adopt taillights.

As to the case, I believe this is strictly an ACLU debacle. Amish don’t particularly care about America’s laws. They wouldn’t bring such a case themselves.

Why is this a problem all of a sudden? They’ve been using reflective signs for decades.

It sure makes the Amish look intolerant of other cultures and religions. Not interested in peaceful co-existence, are they?

Maybe this is the beginning of their plan for world domination!

I will be BRUTALLY honest with all of you. I have been born and raised in Berks Co., Pa. Second only to Lancaster Co., Pa. in which Berks borders. The Amish are basically a cult, NO lie. They do what they want, when they want and religion is allways their “out” when athority questions them. They DO NOT live with in the LAW(s) that everyone else has to adhere to. I have walked countless miles of there properties. Here is how they get rid of their trash: Get the tracktor out, dig a pit….often very close to a stream, or creek. Dump EVERYTHING in it….cover it up. If I did that….WOW, I WOULD BE EXPOSED ON EVERY NEWS CHANNEL ACROSS THE UNIVERSE, paying fines, having things taken from me….etc. What if I claimed that: littering and polluting ground water and water supplies were my “RELIGION”?? Puppie Mills….those are part of my RELIGION ALSO…..I could go on and on. Take a drive down any road in my area….expecially on a Sunday. I hope you did NOT wash your car….horse feces EVERYWHERE !! If my dog craps anywhere but MY PROPERTY….I AM HELD RESPONSIBLE TO CLEAN THE FECES UP, AND PROPERLY DISSPOSE OF THEM !!! They DO NOT buy things from “general society”…..or as little as possible !!! ALL their transactions are amongst their own peoples, and THAT IS NOT A “CULT”….GIVE ME A BREAK I have allmost hit and killed several on bicycles…kids four and five years old….riding halfway out into the lane of a busy road at night…..no lights. Tracktor wheels of steel….JUST SO THEY STAY “GROUNDED” TO THE EARTH, AIR INBETWEEN THEM IS NOT GOOD INTHEIR “RELIGION!!! However, I see them jump rope….how does that work??? Anyway, STEEL WHEELS LITTERALLY RUIN ROADS THAT THEY DO NOT PAY A ONE CENT TO MAINTAIN, NOT A DIME !!! When is the last time you registered your horse and buggie??? They are truley pigs, walk into one of their farm houses. FLIES…all over that home-made pie that is ready to be sold to you at the road-side stand….AGAIN, NO PROBLEM TAKING “OUR $$$$$” !!!!! Do NOT worry, they will NOT buy a damn thing of of any of us. They are “cocky”, believe me, expecially the “younger” ones !! Tell me…..how many GROW POT…..YOU WILL NEVER KNOW, WILL YOU….I DO !!! Our trash does gointo land fills….ones that are strictly inspected, that is why we have to pay for trash removal. I guess it is just another way that they……HO-HUM, GIVE BACK TO THE LAND”….YEAH, O.K. Puppy- Mills…..LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF DOGS ON SOME OF THEM, THE SITE IS NOT PRETTY!!! The “ANIMAL-COPS” TRY TO BUST THEM…. UNTILL THE “COPS” CAN RE-VISIT, EVERY PUPPY, DOG, PONY ETC., HASE BEEN SHOT IN THE HEAD OR POISONED TO DEATH THEN…..OUT COMES THAT “HOLE-DIGGING” TRACTOR……AND YOU WANT TO BUY A JAR OF FLY CRAP JELLY FROM THEM ???? ARE YOU CRAZY??!! Their HYGIENE…..WLL, THERE IS NONE, SIMPLY PUT !! Their CHILDREN, NOT VERY WELL TAKEN CARE OF. A SIMPLE COLD WILL GO UN-TREATED UNTILL IT IS FATAL PNEMONIA…..CHILD DIES, OUT COMES THE “HOLE DIGGING” TRACTOR….AND ONLY THEIR CULT NEED KNOW. So, what we have here….just to sum it up: Child Abusers,People that ruin EVERYONE’S environment. Animal Abusers and Torcheres, a people that ruin public property, people that do not adhere to laws, people that do not report income….AAAHHH, TAX EVASION, People that “CRY RELIGION” when they are caught and someone is not paid to “LOOK THE OTHER WAY”….EXTORSION!!!! Careless use of CHEMICALS….AGAIN ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND TREE HUGGERS….WHERE ARE ‘YA NOW??? ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS, YOU TOO !!!??? FDA APPROVED FOODS…..DOES NOT EXIST AS HYGIENE DOES NOT EITHER!! BASICALLY, A CULT OR MAFIA OF ITS OWN. I think I have made my point clear. DO NOT SUPPORT THESE PEOPLE, THEY DO NOT WANT ANY OF OURS AND WILL NOT GIVE ANY!!! They HIDE BEHIND THEIR “RELIGION” AND ARE ALWAYS FORGIVING AND HERE IS WHY: CREATE WAVES AND YOU GET ATTENTION, THAT WOULD NOT BENIFIT THEM AS THEY BREAK EVERY RULE IN THE BOOK….Now, who wants a pie, some sweet corn or a jar of fly-shit jelly??!! NOT ME !!! Sincerely,….and PLEASE WAKE UP, AS WHAT YOU SEE AS A TOURIST IN LANCASTER CO. , PA., IS NOT THE “REAL AMISH”….. TROY.

If my post is NOT published…..YOU ARE VIOLATING MY FIRST AMMENDMENT!!! OH, AND MY RELIGION TOO !!! The ACLU may attack??? Sincerely, TROY.