Religious Tolerance for Wiccans… and Everyone

I agree that there should be tolerance of every kind, religion, race, gender, sexuality. I just also believe that sometimes when others misuse the very same things that you define as good, it tends to give the other people of that group a bad reputation and then those stereotypes are defined and distributed to everyone, not just that one “evil” person. This process not only works with religion but in other areas as well. Freedom of religion is an alienable right, and so is social justice and equal protection under the law, but we know throughout history all of the above have been proven to be a misconception and those same alienable rights and equal protection are reserved for those these societal structures see fit for them.

You have every right (and who is anyone to judge anyone) to believe in any religion fits you most. Even if you were worshiping a “bad” Deity (I am not saying that you will, you don’t) it is your decision and shouldn’t bother anyone as long as you don’t harm anyone in the name of your religion. If you harm someone you are to blame, not your religion.

It is hypocritical for someone to “believe” in freedom of choice but only for the choices he can accept…

Let’s not forget the importance of freedom FROM religion and the right to not believe.

Freedom “from” religion isn’t a right. That’s almost like saying we have a “right” to not be offended.

While I’m firmly for a freedom of religion, the last statement definitely had two conflicting views. If you, as a Wiccan, want to practice publicly - that’s fine, the government should not step in unless there are problems that would result in real, discernible harm to another person (same as for any religion or practice). However, nobody has a right not to be offended by that. Nor does anyone have a right to push that out of the public view just because they don’t like it (assuming it complies with all laws and so on). However, if someone partaking in that is later treated differently by others because they did, they do not have a “right” to sue for being treated differently.

Flip that around - people do not have a right to be free from religion if it bothers them unless it’s done in such a way that it would be considered a problem even if it was not religious. Don’t want to hear a prayer, see a Cross/Star of David/Pentagram and you do? - so sorry, deal with it or take some steps to avoid it in the future. Surprisingly to a lot of people, the “establishment” clause that so many people use as justification for the “wall of separation” between church and state really doesn’t exist - it just means that the Federal (nothing about State) Government cannot establish a government-sanctioned religion - similar to that of the Church of England. Thomas Jefferson’s comments that led to the separation were actually based on him trying to re-assure some people practicing their faith that the government would not try to regulate that or interfere with it.

In this case, I’d say that the government is wrong to disallow the symbol. I believe in the 1st Amendment and what it stands for. I do not have a right to not be offended if someone puts up a pentagram, pyramid, rainbow, fish, pelican, whatever. However, we also need to remember that Tolerance Acceptance. I can tolerate such things, but that does not mean that I need to accept them as something that would be right for me or my family. (I can accept that people practice other religions and tolerate that fact without needing to accept those religions and their practices.)

I would also agree that Wicca is generally misunderstood today. I’d blame that primarily on pop culture, though, as that’s where most people have their exposure to “witches”. Whether it’s Samantha from Bewitched, the Charmed show, etc - those are the sorts of witches that typically get the attention. I seriously doubt that the majority of Wiccans are like that, but that would make it the current picture.

Good article for something thought-provoking.

The problem that Wicca has is that it is very recently “coined” from whole cloth and something that no one really knows much, at all, about - paganism, or even more specifically northern european paganism, a fertility goddess and a horned God.

Old religions at least have the verisimilitude of being - well - old. To paraphrase Bart Simpson “at least we are civilized enough to worship a two-thousand year old carpenter!”

Paganism was, probably, very naturalistic where the creators of Wicca gave it a supernatural air with the “Magik” and the “spells” without the mythology of miracles to kind of sell it.

When Mormonism broke, it had Joseph Smith finding the Golden Tablets and reading them with magic glasses. This can be the basis for a new religion - the miracles of the revelation. Wicca is seen, by it’s critics, as being some sort of new projection by it’s supporters of their personal desires upon what they believe “Witta” or “Fairy Wicca” or many such tomes to actually know of paganism. The history of Wicca is rather famous for being built on sand but…. what religions aren’t?

Edna St. Vincent Millay asked “What terrible fear causes Man to address the Void as Thou?” I find this aspect of any religion interesting - Wicca notwithstanding but to not allow it on a headstone ….!? It also gives things power to deny them. “Support mental health or I’ll kill you.” Wicca is trivial nonsense but how DARE you put a pentacle on a headstone.” It’s all sort of silly.

As a traditionally-apprenticed Native American shaman, I agree in freedom of religion and that a person has the right, even in the military, to have their religion recognized.

I disagree with most about the Wiccan religion - that it is an ancient practice. In most cultures (including Native American), the witch was a bad thing, and so was and is spell-casting. Today’s Wiccans are a “New Age” religion with today’s New Age concepts, such as “whatever you do, do no harm”. This is a perfect example of the old adage, “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.

Let me explain. As a traditionally apprenticed shaman (as opposed to a modern New Age classroom-trained shaman – won’t get into this here), I was taught that spell-casting to bring someone success, love, money, etc. is an act against nature, for nature IS balance and if you bring one person one of these things, you cause another the opposite (to lose one of these things) – so therefore you ARE causing harm when you do this!

As a shaman, I am also taught that you must choose your clients carefully, especially in curse removal – did they do something to cause this bad thing to happen to them, or were they truly a victim? As a shaman you are taught to carefully choose those you help, for your actions will always demand balance if you help others for their own benefit/profit.

I guess what I am saying is this: if one chooses a religion for only themselves to follow is one thing, but if one uses the knowledge of their religion to help others, they need to truly understand nature and balance before they act and upset it.

I have studied wicca as well as many other religons. I have never understood why some one is hated because he or she is ; jewish, christan, muslim, ect. YOU have to decide for yourself what to believe or you are just repeating some one elses thoughts. oh even though I choose to belive other wise I belive strongly in YOUR right to belive what ever you wish

As muslim i understand where you are coming from, but you must know that there are alot of ignorant people and you should be ready when you face some of those people, i am never suprised when somone acuses me of doing something terrible. or calling me names. and you shouldent be suprised.

I think that everyone here that has said that the Wiccan religon is not one of old time or ancient are the most ignorant of all I am with all certainty that it is just that, as I come from a long generation of wiccans . i’m sure you didn’t know that Wicca at one time was called paganism did you? Boy are you ignorant. Just goes to show how little some people really know .Even those who say the have studied a lot of different religions to say such things is to show true false in your wisdom as well as the statement that witches are bad things and then following that statement with the word as well as the religion wicca. Wiccans are not witches we started out as healers and it is stupid people like you who have people directing prejudice against us. To use the word witch and wiccan in the same content is not only an insult to those of us that are true wiccans but it is also a very bold ignorant one at that.

Piper: Do not come to my site and proclaim yourself a “true Wiccan” and then continue to call people ignorant and stupid. Being a ‘true’ Wiccan, you would know that speaking that way to and of others is something we don’t do. Why are you calling people ignorant, on a post about TOLERANCE for personal beliefs?

You stated: “To use the word witch and wiccan in the same content is not only an insult to those of us that are true wiccans but it is also a very bold ignorant one at that”.

That is incorrect. MANY Wiccans are also Witches. However, not all are. Nor are all Witches Wiccan. How is it an ignorant statement to make that I am both? There are thousands of us who are.

Of course I know that Wicca is a form of Paganism, as do I know the history of thousands of years surrounding it. I know that many parts of recent Christianity got its start in Pagan beliefs.

Again, if you are a true WIccan, you know very well that there is no one “correct” path for ANY Pagan. We all find our own Path. Mine is different from yours, as yours is different from the next person.

The “freedom from religion” statement does not generally mean “I wish to live a life where I never hear anybody speak of any religion.” What it means is that you have the option of not getting preached to, or looked down upon because you don’t believe in the majority (or significant minority) religion, and that you have the same options and opportunities as those who do believe in the majority or significant minority religion.

Basically, “freedom from religion” looks to cease the baloney that has occurred at the Air Force Academy, where evangelical so-called Christians ruled and insisted on converting everyone. Or the BS that is happening in the Presidential race and way too many US elections where the candidate must prove that they are a true believer of their faith (and not one of them thar crazy religions - but a TRUE faith).

I am an atheist, so I think you are all wrong (yes, even Wiccans), but I will fight for your right to practice your religion, whether you worship the earth, a guy in from the middle east from a couple thousand years ago, a bald chubby guy, the flying spaghetti monster, Jim Morrison, whatever. Just don’t try to force your particular belief on me, or restrict my opportunities based on my stance. I promise to give you the same courtesy.