The hidden Windows tax that no one talks about

[...] lessons from my world created an interesting post today on The hidden Windows tax that no one talks about.Here’s a short outlineMicrosoft recently commissioned a report about the Apple tax and how much more it would cost for a typical family to buy and support Apple computers versus the price for lower priced Windows computers.  Not really a big surprise that Windows came out ahead of the game considering that they paid for the report.  What struck me though was just how badly put together the report was and how weak the argument against the Mac was.  For instance, the Apple family for some reason felt the need to purcha [...]

It’s sad when the #1 retailer feels compelled to mention the #2 retailer by name in their ads. Check out my blog for my own take on how the Microsoft ship has begun to list.

[...] No one talks about the hidden Windows tax. [...]

Chris your argument is flawed. Your examples for “microsoft tax” are hypotheticals, and are formulated only to make your point. Most people uninstall the junk software themselves. Most people get antivirus free. And, in my opinion, if you resort to a mac because you don’t want to deal with the oh so very rare problems on a Windows system, THAT RUNS LIKE IT SHOULD, you shouldn’t have a computer. I use a windows based pc simply because there are many more powerful programs for it that I use. The software for Mac is severely lacking. Macs were built for the artsy type, not the professional.

Excellent points sir. Sort of. You made a point of saying .dll errors and registry errors like they were inevitable but this is obviously only a wording problem and not a fact problem. As they are very likely if you don’t know what you’re doing but far from impossible to avoid. Even in my younger years probing around an older version of Windows I’ve never experienced problems that weren’t my own fault. All errors I ever got with Windows I could get with a Mac….if I ever managed to get one started.

I have the worst luck with Macs, they never seem to want to work for me. 9 times out of 10 a new mac would not even start up, it would just crash as it attempted to load. Very bizarre. Oh well, I’m very happy with my Windows computer, and it is an individual experience. It is possible to get a very cheap computer form non name-brand vendors that don’t have all of the extra trial software but most don’t care to look for those. If anything the “Windows Tax” that you mentioned as far as software is concerned is more a lazy tax than anything. And removal of said software has never taken me more than ten minutes.

MAC also isn’t as paranoid over pirating of its operating system. And rightly so, usually the OS is specifically designed for a very specific hardware set-up, as you already know. Not completely but it’s rare for a non-Mac PC to be able to run Mac OS for various reasons. Or it was, I don’t know what the switch to Intel processors as an option has done for people.

Windows, not so much. And registration isn’t a big deal, it’s five minutes out of my day. And quite often this is five minutes most people waste anyway doing nothing. So I see no problems there.

Probably the biggest detriment is the fact that each version of Windows is often tweaked by the vendor or the computer put together poorly. So this isn’t necessarily a direct Windows problem as a vendor problem.

But like I said if most people just took the time to actually learn something most problems could easily be avoided. No one would even have to become a pseudo-geek like myself, they’d just have to remove themselves from ignorance.

Macs and Windows are both great OSs that work very well. You can break both and you can run both without problems. Sadly one requires you to actually learn something. Shame I know. Oh well.

But yeah excellent points made. With the exception about the DLL and registry errors. I mean you portray them as inevitable and…well Mac doesn’t have DLL and as far as I’m aware it’s UNIX based and doesn’t have a registry…so of course you don’t have these problems. But Macs have smiliar problems, especially if they’re poorly written or the software has a glitch. Had to instruct a friend from a distance on how to get his ipod hooked up because Itunes kept claiming a driver error on his Mac. In fact around here….errors on both are quite common.

I have also instructed everyone I know to stay away from geek squad. Those idiots tried to lie to me to get me to buy a fancier computer. They said I wouldn’t be able to do anything with Vista on a 1GB of RAM. I proved them wrong, I did all of my video and photo editing as well as 3D modeling on that thing with no problems.

Oops, hehe, sorry I’m obviously a ranter. I’ll leave you be. Again great article, very good points, shame on Microsoft. But what can you expect when they start to get desperate….well fewer versions of their operating system would be nice. I don’t see why I should have to get Ultimate to get Japanese loaded as a usable language on this system. Oh well. Yeah I don’t like Microsoft or Apple, but I can’t use a MAC, Linux….well I don’t see what’s so great…and Windows works for me. Just to explain my ranting. Okay later.

I have both a Mac and some PCs.

I prefer my Mac.

I think my Dad really needs a Mac, but he doesn’t want to admit it.

I have to tell you that not all PCs come with a bunch of shovelware.

My Systemax Beast PC came with maybe 2 programs besides Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit. (I think Roxio Lite was one of them.)

In contrast, my Dad has 3 other PCs in his upstairs office.

This HP XP desktop’s screen is cluttered with icons for software that came with the computer 8 years ago.

My Dad never cleans the desktop. He never uses most of that software.

Both your post and the article you refer to are good examples of weighting arguments to “prove” a predetermined outcome. IMO, your arguments are no more (or less) valid than the “Mac Tax” arguments. Still, take 2 similarly-configured Intel computers. Install Mac OS on one. Install preferred version of Windows on the other (anyone who finds the variety of Windows OSes and the pricing confusing just isn’t pay9ing attention, or is unable to think critically: such users belong in “assisted computing facilities” where aides can spend all day saying “Here, dearie, let me make that mouse click for you… “). Now, admittedly, the super small target that Macs make (Wow! Up to 5% market share or what, now?) does provide better security. Still, I’ve never had an infected Windows box in 16 years of using roughly 20 personal Windows computers (most of which are still online, using one or another Windows version. Granted, more and more of my own computers are running some version of ‘nix in recent years… ). Granted, the BSD codebase of the most recent MAc OSes is more robust/secure than Windows and almost as robust are a real BSD install. So? Four simple free apps or configuration twaeks and THUMPING stupid users’ heads (sometimes with an axe handle) to correct stupid behaviors result in Windows boxes that need never suffer a malware intrusion. That the “typical” PC user you refer to may be too stupid or lazy to do some very simple homework before purchasing or using a new computer means they ought to pay more (and for similarly-configured hardware, it is still substantially more) buy a Mac instead? Are you trying to tell us something about Mac users? *LOL*

Your points are well taken, but it is preaching to the choir here. (Lockergnome)

Besides that, the Microsoft ads are pointed at dummies, their constituency, for the most part. Those of us who use Windows by choice modify it to a point that Microsoft would find hard to recognize at first blush.

Apple deals with the Microsoft bashing the same way it deals with othr bashings, with pointed humor, which is frequently above the average Windows sheep.

One point I will make for Microsoft however - in many ways it cannot provide a complete solution, as Apple does, for when it does, it gets the DOJ and others coming down on it like the Hammer of Thor.

Recently it has gotten around this, by allowing the stuff to be downloaded (Windows Live Essentials), but it doesn’t want to have too many Essentials, for that would cut into the sacred cow known as Office.

[...] No one talks about the hidden Windows tax. [...]

[...] No one talks about the hidden Windows tax. [...]

I am hoping your article is opinion based and not ‘fact’ based otherwise its as valid as the “commissioned report” publicized by Microsoft. Having said that, it would seem that the average desktop or laptop consumer will purchase their new computer based on their opinion or personal choice rather than functionality at the retail stores.

It would also seem that other factors come into play when making these purchases. Most people will buy products they are familiar with and comfortable setting up and using in their home. This could greatly be based on the computer they use at work or the computer that will best fit their child/student’s needs.

Everyone that I know who owns a Mac does so because of a specific reason. My nephew and his girlfriend are both into computer graphics and therefore feel a Mac best fits their needs. However, they are the odd-balls of the family as the rest of us own PCs because that is the product we are comfortable using and due to support (me).

Sure seems as if every company in America is getting on the ‘Bail Out’, ‘Recovery’ or ‘Tax Relief’ advertising ban wagon. Microsoft was just next in line.

[...] [...]

Guri made me lol…

@Guri -

Most people uninstall the junk software themselves.
Not true, obviously you don’t support PC’s as a profession.

Most people get antivirus free.
Nope again, most of my clients buy Norton or Mcafee…I push AVG, but the advertising gets them every time.

very rare problems on a Windows system…
LOL

The software for Mac is severely lacking.
What software do you use that isn’t available on a Mac?

I think you are making this a bigger deal than it really is. For me, some of the free trial software that came on my computer is actually useful! (Sonic CD & DVD Burner!) And all the others easily came off with one simple use of “Add and Remove programs” Does Apple have THAT? And Macs also have a major game problem. There aren’t an incredible amount of games made for mac, even though they tend to have better graphics. Sure, Apple has iPod, IPhone, all that, and I think that’s great. But my disagreement is mostly with Macs. In my opinion, Macintosh’s User Interface just is a cover-up for all their problems.

“Macs were built for the artsy type, not the professional.”

Really? Because I wasn’t aware that musicians weren’t professionals.

Every single artist I have met as a composer uses a mac. So macs are computers for THE CREATIVE. The apparent “weak software” you are talking about is actually much more powerful than any windows alternative. Garageband especially, and most programs that are cross-platform such as Microsoft Word and Finale 09 simply run better on a mac.

For the people who think macs are “only about aesthetics,” then you need to look under the hood of one. How many windows laptops come stock with DDR3 RAM, and for software, how many windows computers can be left on for an unlimited amount of time, and still be blazing fast every time you move the mouse to wake it up?

I suffered through six years of windows, and then I got smart and bought a mac. Big price, yeah, but it’s completely worth it once you realize that macs are more functional, more powerful, and more dependable than PCs, and besides, they will last MUCH longer. With the way Snow Leopard is shaping up, look for Apple to begin its reign in the computer market for its performance, marketing, and superior design. They know what they are doing, you can’t deny that, so why don’t you just trust them?

Before you argue against a mac, have you actually tried using one? (More than fiddling at the apple store. I mean for a good month at least.) I would be willing to bet that the majority of consumers don’t use macs because they don’t know anything about them. And if they were exposed to them, and used one for a period of time, they would quickly be converts. It’s the perfect computer for the non-computer aficionado. And if you ARE a geek, and think macs are “kiddie computers,” then you obviously don’t know how to use one.

>> Some pay upwards of 50 dollars at their store of choice to have the software removed.

And some run CrapCleaner for free. Incidentally that shovelware brings the price of the computer down - I don’t see many people arguing with that.

>> While people have the option of downloading free antivirus or adware software, most customers are unaware of the free alternatives

According to CNet, from that one site alone people have downloaded more than a quarter billion free anti-virus programs. They also get Microsoft’s free monthly Malicious Software Remover. Maybe that’s why I never get any problems with viruses. They just aren’t that common.

>> Windows based issues like .DLL errors and registry errors

Never see those any more.

>> not to mention that Macs have a higher resale value when you are ready to upgrade to a newer computer.

But they cost more to start with! It costs the same in real $$ terms to keep a Mac and a PC running for the same period of time, but more of your money is tied up in the Mac.

>> I won’t even bother with the headaches that come from software activation, something that Apple customers do not have to deal with.

I guess you haven’t used any Microsoft or Adobe products lately.

>> With Microsoft the cost for that can run between 99 dollars all the way to over 300 dollars if the customer decides to go with the Ultimate version.

But most people don’t have or want the Ultimate version. They’ll pay less than Apple’s $129 to upgrade, and it will be the third upgrade if you’ve gone from XP to Vista to Windows 7. How much have Apple’s OS upgrades cost in the last ten years?

In the meantime, be happy to pay for yearly upgrades to iLife.

LoL, what a joke, Macs are fine if all you want to do is browse the web, check email, make a pretty picture, or buy some drm protected media. I use pc’s for cnc programming and control, I use enroute, inventor, autocad, mach3 just to name a few, all not available on a mac.

Its funny a few weeks ago i went to help a company with their cnc machine, the owner was a mac fan, he showed me his shiny mac in his office with a 42″ apple flat screen, he kept telling me how great it is when he found out i don’t use mac’s, then we went out to his shop where all the machinery was located and the funny thing was, there were no macs running any of the cnc equipment, and all the cad work for the machines was done on pc’s. Funny how macs aren’t of much use when it doesn’t sit on your desk.

Advertising is advertising is advertising. What amazes me about the mac v pc adverts is the amount of discussion and passion they generate. Every blogger knows that the easiest way to ignite a flame war is to make a disparaging comment about Apple, or Microsoft. Computers are essentially inanimate objects, composed of plastic, metal, ceramics and glass. Without human intervention they are as useful as a rock. So why are people so passionate about them.

While we would like to believe that our buying decisions are made based on careful consideration of facts and capabilities, almost all buying decisions are emotional. Advertisers understand this so advertisements rarely contain useful information and instead appeal to our emotions. Those Mac vs PC ads can be cute, but honestly now, do they really contain any useful information about the capabilities of the Mac? PC advertisements are no better. Price is a meaningless statistics unless you have information to put it in perspective. Both commercials are designed to appeal to our emotions… I’m cool, or I got a bargain.

The bottom line is: If you think a Mac is a better machine for you, it is! If you think a PC is a better machine for you, it is!

I don’t think your argument against the pc is very good. I paid $600 for my pc, if I would have gotten a mac with the same specs it would have costed upwards of $1000; granted I had it made by a family friend so he deducted maybe $150 off the price. Anyways, I didn’t have to spend anything after the initial cost of the pc unless you count games. I have bought a pc in the past that had alot of software preinstalled, but I could easily uninstall that and I did.

I am glad somebody finally brought this up - reversed the tax argument. I have been saying for so long now, that you may pay less up front for a PC, but you pay more in the long run.

[...] Continued here: The hidden Windows tax that no one talks about ~ lessons from my world [...]

Why are we even talking about registry and .DLL errors, do you have any idea how rare it is for me to get those kind of errors, I have seen just about anything else but half the time the only annoyance is that I have so many companies that I have to blame when stuff does go wrong. As soon as a Mac exists that I can game on that doesn’t cost as much as a small car then I will consider buying a Mac until then I (and probably a lot of other people) don’t care. See it isn’t that I am against owning a Mac, I am against opening up a mortgage to pay for one.

[...] No one talks about the hidden Windows tax. [...]

I’ve bought thousands of computers and customized them per clients requests. I’ve never seen any hidden costs or “taxes”.

Let’s take my resent purchase of MY personal new laptop. I paid the initial price. Brought it home, un-boxed it, registered it etc… the fist thing I did was un-install Norton’s 6mth trial, and install McAfee which is free from Comcast (ISP) which by the way most ISP’s offer free anti-virus software.

There is no way that I would ever install window 7 on any of my machines. This is running Vista which is the first Vista machine that I bought, but with the 4 GB of RAM I’m having no issues with it.

It’s been four months, I have everything on here that I want, it’s all configured the way I like it, life is good.

I think the DLL files issue that was talked about…is from users touching things that they shouldn’t be touching. By that I mean…If you don’t know what your doing you should ask someone that does… When Windows asks if “this file may is not used by any other programs, do you wish to delete it” during un-installing of a program…then you should answer NO…(you want keep it).

The biggest problem that I found when starting my company was… No one created Restore Disks as the computer asked them to do when they first turned on the computer from out of the box. That is not Windows or the computer manufactures problem, that is the uses problem…. then they un-install something the wrong way, or get hit by a virus, and they blame everyone but themselves when they don’t have the disks to fit it. The other thing I found is they lost or misplaced the Restore Disks that came with the machine (such as Dell sends). This is the biggest problem people have.

The solution I found is… I now make back-up copies of everyones Restore Disks and file them in the clients folders.

I also encourage everyone, regardless of Windows or Apple, to back-up their files via external HD, this is very important, yet so many don’t do it. I also encourage people to save their registration codes for any programs or games they buy, as this will reduce the phone calls and tech support chat with trying to restore/re-install any programs or games. Saving these in a NotePad file and backing them up makes them easy and quick to re-install.

I’m all about being honest, so I’ll tell you the true feeling I have about Widows vs Apple.

Windows is for the people that like conform-ability, versatility, and no major up front prices.

Apples are for people that like the same thing day after day, and have no desire to make adjustments, customizations, or performance improvements. If they want something better, they have no problem spending a bundle of money to buy a newer machine. There are very little upgrades that can be done, and those that can are usually 3X more expensive than when doing so with a Windows PC. You will find most people that use Apples also use AOL… another thing that simple people like… if they want to go shopping online, they just click on the shopping link on the AOL homepage, vs a Windows/real ISP, which you do a search have ton’s of options and order as you will.

In my opinion, the people that like a simple life, have nothing better to spend money on, have no tolerance, or patents, have no need for a lot of software, and not very computer would benefit best with an Apple PC /w AOL. Or are artist, or musicians…Apple does have some good graphics, and song production software.

Windows are for people that like to live life to the max, and are willing to learn how to get the most out of the PC world. People that just can’t get their fill…should own both

One way or another your ultimately going to spend money, it all depends on how much you want to spend up front, how much customizing you like, if your a gamer, artist, musician, or whatever.

I’ve used both, I’ve teched both… I would never waste my money on an Apple. But that war has been going on forever and will always be. But if your going to tell people there are hidden costs in Windows, then you need to get the facts straight first. A new apple machine $1500.00, an new windows machines $400.00, if the life of that windows machine lasted the popular visions of windows (3.1, 95, 98, xp, vista) @ $150.00 per upgrade =’s $750 + $400 for the machine =’s $1150 still cost less than an Apple. So if it all boils down to price…a windows machine is Still the most cost effective.

–Eric

Windows does come with Antivirus.

Is it called Antivirus XP this week? Or Antivirus 2009?

I see one of those at least once a week. Sometimes they bring enough friends along that a reinstall of Windows is the only way to be certain of removal.

The upgrade from Tiger to Leopard didn’t seem to be for free, or at least that’s what some posts suggest:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=254320
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-206914.html

Plenty of people think that the crapware that comes preinstalled is needed for it to work and leave it there for years.

Others doesn’t care to have a swarm of virus (and/or doesn’t even know what a virus is) and don’t install antivirus SW.

MS makes almos everyting the sistem uses, Apple gets versions of SW under the FreeBSD license and modified it in a way that it only runs on OS X; then apple charges for the sistem much more than MS.

A friend of mine won an iBook… and ended up installing XP. He runs leopard as long as whatever he’s doing doesn’t require using SW other than Safari (or however its IE is called).

(I hate apple because they use free software in their sistem and doesn’t give anything back to the comunity and they don’t care wheter or not their products work in other sistems)

An even better solution is to go with a Free Software operating system for PCs and Macs. Personally, I recommend Ubuntu GNU/Linux for most people but advanced *nix users and those who are feeling adventurous could try Gentoo or Arch. Even better would be a truly free operating system like gNewSense or Trisquel GNU/Linux (for desktop/workstation use) or dyne:bolic or Musix GNU+Linux which are suited to multimedia production.

This gives the stability that comes with Mac OS (itself a *nix variant) and the breadth of software choice that comes with Windows. If you feel like you must run Windows software, Wine can run about 80% of the Windows software [that i have] with no issues at all. Getting the “truly free” options to work on laptops is quite a pain in most cases but the ones I mentioned before are extremely easy to set up on most systems and on a wider range of hardware than the latest version of Windows with the same visual appeal.

There are many Linux groups around who would be glad to set people in their area up with a Linux installation that suits their needs free of charge.