Dog fighting is bad. Everybody has made that point. But Vick has not been found guilty. Has not made an appearance in court. An indictment is an indictment. The defense cannot question any evidence presented. The world needs to calm down and take a step back. Suspend Vick? For what? Allegedly he participated in this dog fighting ring. He has not been found guilty. I think some people who have been indicted have been found not guilty. Call me crazy but I think it has happened before. How can the NFL suspend Vick for violating conduct policy when these are just allegations? 1+1 does not equal 3. The league would have to determine that Vick is guilty of some or all of the allegations. That’s nonsense for the NFL to put themselves in that position. I know the NFL wants to control everything, hence the No Fun League nickname, but the NFL is not the law. If I were Vick I would sue the league for an unfair suspension and for possibly tainting a potential jury pool. All this boils down to is humans watching animals for entertainment. Your entertainment maybe another’s disgrace. What about the zoos, amusement parks, horse racing, dog tracks etc. All entertainment for humans. Just because you call an animal Fido and bring it into your home, you want to scream and shout about dog fighting. Go into the wild and jump into the water with some killer whales and play with them. I don’t think you’re going to have a Sea World experience. Do you honestly believe horses want to run around a track for our “entertainment”? Please all this so-called public outrage needs to end. PETA, or should I say ambulance chasers, need to shut up. PETA, supporters of PETA, dog owners, and everybody else, would want the same opportunity to prove themselves innocent; No matter how heinous the allegations are. Vick will have his day in court and he will have to deal with the outcome. Oh by the way, I own a dog. I adopted him from the pound. He is 7years old and I love him. Please end this nonsense and stop pointing fingers. Its is ridiculous

I was really trying to see it from Dominic’s point of view in the above post. I was haning in there with him until I got to “All this boils down to is humans watching animals for entertainment.” and then everything that followed. Game over…moral compass shot.
Okay, the COURTS have a rightly difficult standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt.” The NFL, to which Vick owes his multi-million dollar contract, does not. They can set their own standard of conduct. And I think they know if Michael Vick puts on a uniform this season a HUGE number of us fans (starting with Drew Carey) are going to be boycotting the NFL big time.
And get a freaking moral compass that works. If killing animals for your pleasure doesn’t make you want to vomit then you should be ashamed of yourself and not be allowed near children. “Watching animals for entertainment…” Sheesh.

While I agree that Vick is innocent until proven guilty, it’s a differnet matter when it comes to the NFL. In essecnce Vick is an employee, a product of the NFL and therefore the NFL can suspend him as they see fit (read ‘in their best interests’). As far as dog fighting goes, if you think dog fighting is just humans being entertained by animals, then you sir are part of the problem. I’m no PETA activist, but dog fighting certainly needs to be stopped.

Since when does a player have to be convicted of a crime to warrant suspension from the NFL? They have their own policies, any violation of which, can warrant suspension. If the NFL finds that Vick knowingly allowed dog fighters to use his property, whether he was home at the time or not, he’s gone. And good riddance.

Today, Thursday July, 26th 2007 is the day Mike Vice get arraigned. So it’s the next important step in this process. We will have a much better idea of what the federal time-line will be for hearing the case against Vick. So check ESPN often!!!

The problem is that Vick has been convicted by the NFL and the public before the indictment was even recommended. If Vick is found not guilty, even by a preponderance evidence saying that he is innocent, the public and the NFL will still see him as a criminal due to the perception that celebrities get special treatment (which is the case sometimes). What about all of those other players (some who are still playing) that were arrested and convicted on drug and weapons charges?

If Vick is guilty, then he should be punished, but we as a nation still at least nominally believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Here’s how it goes. Vick applied for a job. As it turns out, it’s a MEGAjob for MEGAbucks with MEGArules. If he doesn’t like it, play pick up at the park.

The NFL has rules about “moral turpitude” whether we like it or not. If Brittany Spears were an old time Disney ingenue photographed pantless under contract, she would have found herself tossed out like so much dishwater. Business has different rules from court. We know of one employer who successfully requires that his employees not smoke… at all … anywhere….ever.

If Vick is convicted of a felony then, by definition, he is guilty of “moral turpitude.” He can be also be guilty of it by committing acts that are not “crimes” at all. He can also be judged “guilty enough” - in the court of opinion - and fail to meet the huge legal standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt.” OJ should be able to do a three hour lecture on this subject.

Cockfighting hangs on in some places. The difference between blood sport and horse racing, zoos and throw in rodeo is that the “entertainment” is betting on them running, watching them or just being around them. It is not watching them tear each other apart and then to enjoy watching them die in agony (or even hang around - indifferent). This is called “sadism” and it is a distinct mental illness - torturing animals is a frequent precursor to the much less common “serial killing.” Our laws are kept at a minimum (or should be) to protect us from one another. Moral practices are what you think someone (yourself? others?) need to do to have a “good life.” Hasidic Jews and Presbyterians have wildly different views on what this should be. We all mull over what we can tolerate in the people that entertain us. The NFL is trying to guess what moral practices we will tolerate in it’s players. This is, was and will be about money in the end.

why media dont cover killing of thousands of running dogs, that are too slow fractions of a second in the race trials? the same goes for horses?
its media hypocrisy, what sells , what sounds good is being covered.
every kind of performance breeding - even for animal fighting, or racing, or hunting - comes with inherent killings, cullings and such
wake up folks

It brings animal abuse into the mainstream, where it belongs. People need to be more aware of how animals are sometimes treated in this country.

I don’t know if he’s guilty or not, but I do know that Blacks were treated worse than those dogs were treated. Blacks were kept in cages until they were sold, beaten to death, need I continue.

Kunapoo

Yes, Kunapoo, I really DO think you need to continue.

I can’t tell exactly, but it sounds like you’re saying “because blacks were mistreated or killed or even tortured to death that makes it OK for a black man to do the same to dogs.” (????)

If that’s NOT what you’re saying then, what are you saying? The Inquisition and The Holocaust were even worse therefore, …… what? What behavior would that now justify?

Vick is the misunderstood victim of racism?

I really am curious.

By the way, Peter, while I’m not a fan of “culling” at least it is done without agonizing, lingering death. The same could be said of animals as food.

Google “dog fighting arrests”…..You’ll soon see it’s not just about Michael Vick…….He just happens to be the celebrity.

People are making too big of a deal about this case. We are talking about dog’s here. Bleeding heart tree huging liberals too often confuse the life of humans with soul’less animals. Whatever he did with the dogs affected not one of those yahoos wasting their time with all the protest garbage.
If I see one of those pit bulls on my property that is one dead SOB. In fact i know which bullet I will use.

Guess what y’all… this isn’t about race. This is about race AND money. Look at how the media and the feds are handling this…

Tell me what the media coverage of Chris Benoit has revolved around. It has revolved around a tragic family man who was pulled into a life of consistent drugs and steroid use that ravaged his body, threw him into depression and caused him to commit such a heinous crime. Imagine if Michael Vick killed his wife and children… wait a minute… you see what they are doing to him about ALLEGEDLY killing dogs. I don’t even want to know what they would do about the PROVEN killing of a person…

Speaking of the killing of a person… What about Danny Heatley killing his teammate while driving at extremely reckless speeds? Heatley did not go to jail, nor did he get suspended (correct me if I am wrong on this), and nor did he get any really negative feedback from fans/media. Danny Heatley, at the time a member of the Atlanta Thrashers, was CONVICTED of vehicular homicide in the death of his teammate Dan Snyder while driving too fast here in Atlanta.

What about the Patrick Kearney rape case. That happened in his house nonetheless and while he was present. When is he going to be suspended? Is alleged dog fighting more heinous or egregious than PROVEN rape? I’m patiently waiting on the NFL to say something.

Also Jonathan Babineaux, another Falcon player who is black by the way, killed his dog with a hammer. Let me repeat that… KILLED HIS DOG WITH A HAMMER. No one said anything, PETA or anyone else. Ahem… where was PETA? Oh… my bad, he has no money. I’m still waiting on the NFL… he’s at training camp as we speak.

These guys have ALL broken the law and have yet to be punished for it as severely as Mr. Vick is being punished by the NFL or the media… AND he hasn’t been convicted of anything. You are ALL hypocrites!

I hope that you are all vegetarians. As I see it, raising cattle to be slaughtered for human consumption (or pigs or goats or lamb or fish for that matter) is no different than raising and training dogs to fight, even to the death. The slaughter of animals is no less of a cause of death to the animals than a dog fight is a cause of death to the dogs. Generally the animals we eat are cut while alive so that they will bleed as much as possible - helps the quality of the meat.

The consumption of animals is no more necessary than a dog fight. Both are sheerly for human pleasure. Meat is a luxury.(everything you can get from meat from a sustenance and nutritional perspective can be gotten from non-meat sources) Assuming we were never lost in the wilderness in the winter, every single one of us could survive our entire natural lives without ever consuming meat.

Are you hypocrites as eager to refute the meat and poultry industries as you are to refute Michael Vick (who by the way you don’t know what specifically he’s done if anything.)? Hmmmmm? The reason why you Walt Disney raised children know nothing is because you are happy being ignorant. If these dogs looked like snakes or spiders i’m sure you’d have no problem with their fighting. You’re only getting your collective panties in a wad because you’re thinking about this emotionally and you all actually ‘like’ dogs.

Where is the logic. You wear leather right? You eat meat right? Where is the outrage about the industries that allow you those pleasures? The reason you’re not upset with them is that you don’t see the cruelty that goes into killing a cow.

I’ve thought for a while that it might be a good idea to make people slaughter an animal, in order to be licensed to eat meat. It would combat the sort of happiness in ignorance that people enjoy today. I know I know… you’re saying that this isn’t about eating meat it’s about dog fighting… to that I say you fool! It’s about the hypocrisy. The hypocrisy that allows you to say that this one way of being cruel to animals is ok while another way isn’t. Cruelty is cruelty right? Or is cruelty only cruelty when it suits your selfish, hypocritical purposes?

We eat bacon because we take pleasure from it, not because it is necessary to our survival or health. It gives us pleasure, just as Mr. Vick took pleasure from watching dogs tear each other apart. In order for Mr. Vick to derive this pleasure, dogs had to be tortured; in order for us to derive the pleasure of eating bacon, pigs must be tortured.

I should add, incidentally, that what Vick’s pit bulls went through during their miserable lives is a far cry from what a pig goes through in a factory farm. Barely out of the womb, piglets are held up by one leg and subjected to the following: without anesthetic, their genitals are cut off, their tails are cut off, their ears are sliced, and their teeth are pulled out with pliers. This is how they BEGIN their lives. The rest of it will be spent in a space barely large enough to move. It’s essentially a life-long torture chamber for a sentient animal with a nervous system fully capable of feeling pain just like you do.

If you eat pork, you will be responsible for approximately one thousand of these life-long torture sessions. Vick only had, what, 70 dogs? It’s not even close.

The only reason eating meat is legal is that we like it. And the only reason that Mr. Vick is being killed in the media is that he’s black. I’m not surprised… it’s been that way for well over a while now. It’s not at all about cruelty to animals. If it were about cruelty to animals then Mr. Vick would not even be mentioned in the same breath as the meat and poultry industries.

Oh and you all act like we’re SUPPOSED to trust the police and the FBI. *LOL* Are you kidding. Seriously tell me you’re kidding. Why would I or Mr. Vick trust the police or the FBI? Oh I know… if you didn’t do anything wrong you’d have nothing to fear right? Give me a damn break! I’ve seen planted evidence and beaten confessions too many times.

Vick ALLEGEDLY tortured and killed maybe a hundred dogs. This occurs every hour at Huntingdon Life Sciences and other corporations who specialize in animal testing, often for products like artificial sweeteners and cosmetics. Like most research companies, Huntingdon Life Sciences uses beagles as their dog of choice. Whereas Pit bulls are chosen for their ferocity, beagles are chosen for their docility. If you want to see what happens to these beagles, as well as cats, chimps and a virtual Noah’s ark of other animals, visit this site:

http://www.shac.net/HLS/exposed.html

It’s harrowing reading, and makes Vick’s ALLEGED dog fights look like a walk in the park.

Once again we’re talking about the torture of animals to produce products that give us pleasure. In this case dogs AND cats as well as our closest relatives in the animal kingdom. Yet while Vick is being crucified in the media and many here calling for his head on a stake, there is narry a peep about the infinitely more monstrous and vastly larger torture operations taking place in research facilities across the country and the world.

Let’s also take a look at Nike while we’re at it. Take a look at this video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LSHQv9FhvVA

It seems that Nike actually hired dogs that were trained to attack one another. They also hired cameramen to film them as well as handlers to handle the dogs… YET they now want to frown upon dogfighting when they actually MADE a commercial that glorified dogfighting as street and hip in order to hawk some shoes. So…. Nike DOES like the competitiveness of dogfighting…. ain’t that a shock?

Boy y’all damn white people kill me!

(Disclaimer: The above sentence was merely an attempt at humor. Not an invitation. I know y’all hate us for whatever reason, forgive us for not wanting to work in cotton fields from “can’t see” until “can’t see” for no pay or not wanting to have our babies cut out of our stomachs when we weren’t obedient enough.)

Oh… and to you people supporting PETA:

http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm

Enjoy…